WakeForestRanger
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I say give the Crimea back to Russia. Let the rest of Ukraine do what they want and call it a day.
Ukraine Protests
- Thread starter HuskyDeac
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BobStackFan4Life
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Next stop, the ATL. I've seen Red Dawn, I know how this works. Start preppin'!
demondeacfreak
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So I'm reading that under a 1994 trilateral agreement, Ukraine agreed to give up its entire nuclear arsenal (at the time it was the 3rd largest nuclear power) in exchange for certain economic incentives and a security agreement with Russia, the United States, Britain, and France. This was recognized in a memorandum put forth by the parties in Budapest, text here. Under this agreement, the signatories agreed to refrain from the use of force or economic sanctions against Ukraine and agreed to respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.
For any of you foreign policy types, does a trilateral agreement of this nature put us in a position to enforce this document against other signatories? Specifically, since both we and Russia gave assurances to Ukraine's territorial integrity, now that Russia seems to be violating that territory do we have an obligation to enforce the agreement and kick them out? Or is it all just empty words and another example of why countries should never trust the United States (or for that matter, Russia) and disassemble their nuclear arsenals?
For any of you foreign policy types, does a trilateral agreement of this nature put us in a position to enforce this document against other signatories? Specifically, since both we and Russia gave assurances to Ukraine's territorial integrity, now that Russia seems to be violating that territory do we have an obligation to enforce the agreement and kick them out? Or is it all just empty words and another example of why countries should never trust the United States (or for that matter, Russia) and disassemble their nuclear arsenals?
HuskyDeac
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Russia has basically taken over Crimea, with Putin ordering it's military in to protect Russia interests. They've already taken over numerous facilities.
I'm not sure how that works in regards to a declaration of war since Crimea is an autonomous region and Russia had an agreement in place to have military in the region.
Russia is basically calling the West's bluff that they're willing to come to the aid of Ukraine.
I'm not sure how that works in regards to a declaration of war since Crimea is an autonomous region and Russia had an agreement in place to have military in the region.
Russia is basically calling the West's bluff that they're willing to come to the aid of Ukraine.
BobStackFan4Life
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Are we witnessing the start of another Cold War? I doubt it.
BobStackFan4Life
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BobStackFan4Life
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BobStackFan4Life
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Not that anything substantive will come from it, but it seems pathetic that something is considered an "emergency", yet they're going to wait till after the weekend to have their meeting.
HuskyDeac
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The UNSC meeting is now closed – A quick analysis — Russia has finally spelled out exactly what its given justification for invading Crimea is. According to their logic:
The EU, the UK, and the US incited the protests and fueled the revolt.
Yanukovych signed a deal with the opposition politicians that would keep him in power until, at least, early elections in December.
The “armed militants” broke this agreement by taking over government buildings, therefore:
Yanukovych is the legitimate leader of Ukraine and the people in charge are radicals, “Kiev,” the catchphrase for these radicals ho are now running the country, is sending provocateurs to takeover government buildings in Crimea (interjection — there is literally no evidence that this is true).
Therefore:
The government of Crimea has asked Russia to send troops to restore order, and Russia has done so unilaterally because the West helped conspire to remove a democratically-elected government and put these radicals in charge.
The bottom line: the international community needs to help remove the radicals and enforce the February 21st agreement (which, by the way, would require reinstating Yanukovych back as President).
If this is not done, Russian troops will defend Crimea, and possibly attack Kiev to make it happen.
The EU, the UK, and the US incited the protests and fueled the revolt.
Yanukovych signed a deal with the opposition politicians that would keep him in power until, at least, early elections in December.
The “armed militants” broke this agreement by taking over government buildings, therefore:
Yanukovych is the legitimate leader of Ukraine and the people in charge are radicals, “Kiev,” the catchphrase for these radicals ho are now running the country, is sending provocateurs to takeover government buildings in Crimea (interjection — there is literally no evidence that this is true).
Therefore:
The government of Crimea has asked Russia to send troops to restore order, and Russia has done so unilaterally because the West helped conspire to remove a democratically-elected government and put these radicals in charge.
The bottom line: the international community needs to help remove the radicals and enforce the February 21st agreement (which, by the way, would require reinstating Yanukovych back as President).
If this is not done, Russian troops will defend Crimea, and possibly attack Kiev to make it happen.
LadyDeac03
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http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._the_russian_president_is_miscalculating.html
Interesting take on the situation
Interesting take on the situation
Henry Chinaski
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Doesn't sound good. They might just have to give up on Crimea....
Supradeac
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Tom Clancy once again predicts a military campaign. (Russia using "protecting ethnic Russians" as justification for taking the Crimean peninsula).
Last edited:
Billy Mitchell
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Deacfreak07
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Has Palin started her "I told you so" tour yet?
It wouldn't matter who our POTUS was. There's nothing we could ever have done if Russia takes over Crimea.
The only things that could be done are about the World Cup and banking issues. Anyone who thinks we have ever had a military option is delusional.
The only things that could be done are about the World Cup and banking issues. Anyone who thinks we have ever had a military option is delusional.
leftcoastdeac
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Well considering NATO went to Russia to request a logistics hub to assist with the draw down in A-stan, I would say it's unlikely we'll do anything militarily. That hub is too important at this point with the mess that is Pakistan.
More here: http://washingtonexaminer.com/what-...mir-putins-hand-on-his-throat/article/2544891
More here: http://washingtonexaminer.com/what-...mir-putins-hand-on-his-throat/article/2544891
TheTwinAndreBen
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Hard to separate politics from this situation.
Russia is merely protecting its economic and military interests from the very real threat that those interests would be compromised by the disintegrating situation in Ukraine. If Maine had seceded from the US 20 years ago, but (i) we still kept a large portion of our Atlantic fleet there, (ii) had tens of billions of dollars invested in oil/gas pipeline infrastruture still running through Maine, and (iii) Maine was still 60+% ethnic Americans, we would absolutely put troops on the ground in Bangor. People would go nuts if we didnt.
Russia is merely protecting its economic and military interests from the very real threat that those interests would be compromised by the disintegrating situation in Ukraine. If Maine had seceded from the US 20 years ago, but (i) we still kept a large portion of our Atlantic fleet there, (ii) had tens of billions of dollars invested in oil/gas pipeline infrastruture still running through Maine, and (iii) Maine was still 60+% ethnic Americans, we would absolutely put troops on the ground in Bangor. People would go nuts if we didnt.