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Wake +9.5 vs/ State

VaDeac said:
I'm not convinced we're significantly better or worse than last year, when we won six. I think 6-7 is a reasonable prediction. We do get State and GT twice and I'm not impressed with either. Clemson is a road game which I'd consider winnable. UNC is at the Joel.
Who knows? I didn't arrive at 6-7 through any great scientific means. It's a guess.
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Ummm.....clem's son beat Ark at home in OT today.:confused:
 
Ummmmm... Clem's Son also has some brutal losses (Rutgers, G-Webb).
 
VaDeac said:
Your reply has zero to do with the post you quoted, but yes maintain your schtick of attacking one player as if he's our only problem.
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CMM and MJ are major problems. They suck. Just look at their career stats and tell me that they don't . You can't win with shit guard play. Horrible shooters who commit more turnovers than assists. They don't defend very well either .
 
wfu22fan said:
CMM and MJ are major problems. They suck. Just look at their career stats and tell me that they don't . You can't win with shit guard play. Horrible shooters who commit more turnovers than assists. They don't defend very well either .
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That's fine - albeit an odd fixation you have. Just thought it was odd that you replied to my assertion that we'll win 6-7 without addressing it directly.
 
wfu22fan said:
CMM and MJ are major problems. They suck. Just look at their career stats and tell me that they don't . You can't win with shit guard play. Horrible shooters who commit more turnovers than assists. They don't defend very well either .
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CMM is fine, as long as he is paired with Wilbekin. When you have shooters to space the floor, you need slashers to attack the basket.

Madison, on the other hand, is just not cut out for this. He is the worst possible combination of atrocious finisher, non-shooter, and average court vision. It'll be nice to have a deep enough rotation next year that we will (hopefully) never have to lean on Madison again.
 
Surely someone on our staff can help CMM develop a repeatable and dependable shot! With his athleticism he would be a top flight player if he could hit 30% from 3.

Even so, he played well at State.
 
Presumably the "w" in "woomp" refers to Wellman.

This is all on him. No way he gets any kind of a walk.
 
Clearly you haven't seen our "Ranked #1 for a few days" banner hanging in the rafters.
 
bobknightfan said:
The program wasn't exactly humming just before Skip's untimely death.. We finished last & next-to-last in the ACC during his last two years.

When you get right down to it....if you are willing to accept the truth, that is....WF basketball hasn't done squat in the post-season since Dave Odom left. During all those years we made exactly one sweet sixteen....and did that by beating a #12 & #13 seed by 1 & 4 points.

Lots of revisionist history going on since Skip's death.
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Which has nothing to do with Wellman's flagrant incompetence since.
 
Wake has been a consistent tournament underachiever even when we had great periods of regular season success.

Even Tacy with his two final 8s. One was a year we won 2 of our last 7 games (likely the only time that has ever happened) and lost to the worst team in the ACC in the 1st round of the ACC tournament. And in 13-14 years he made 1 ACCT final with some pretty darn good teams.
 
bobknightfan said:
No, I haven't....and I won't....but what, pray tell, does that have to do with my statement that WF basketball hasn't done squat in the post-season since Dave Odom left?

People are entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.
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Lol. Perfect response.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Wake has been a consistent tournament underachiever even when we had great periods of regular season success.

Even Tacy with his two final 8s. One was a year we won 2 of our last 7 games (likely the only time that has ever happened) and lost to the worst team in the ACC in the 1st round of the ACC tournament. And in 13-14 years he made 1 ACCT final with some pretty darn good teams.
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Which also has nothing to do with Wellman's flagrant incompetence following Skip's untimely death.
 
deacvision7 said:
Danny is throwing darts at a board.


What is going on is not promising. Hopefully Danny has a master plan...
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I've seen you post things along this line of thinking since the year began. I know you aren't high on Manning and think we should have hired somebody else instead of him to clean up the mess we are in. What have you seen/not seen that makes you so sure he isn't the guy that we need as our head coach? I'm not sold on him as a hire yet by any means (not sure how anybody could be based on the 4-5 start), but everything from a recruiting standpoint so far seems to indicate that he can get the job done there. We all know that this is a roster devoid of any real talent (look at the stars of the guys we put out there compared to State on Saturday), and it is a rebuilding process.

Other than being able to say that you were one of the first people to know he would fail if it happens, what are you basing your point of view off of?

I'm really asking, not trying to come across as accusatory at all towards you. I haven't seen enough one way or the other to make up my mind yet, especially when the class of 2016 is the most important thing he can do right now.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I've seen you post things along this line of thinking since the year began. I know you aren't high on Manning and think we should have hired somebody else instead of him to clean up the mess we are in. What have you seen/not seen that makes you so sure he isn't the guy that we need as our head coach? I'm not sold on him as a hire yet by any means (not sure how anybody could be based on the 4-5 start), but everything from a recruiting standpoint so far seems to indicate that he can get the job done there. We all know that this is a roster devoid of any real talent (look at the stars of the guys we put out there compared to State on Saturday), and it is a rebuilding process.

Other than being able to say that you were one of the first people to know he would fail if it happens, what are you basing your point of view off of?

I'm really asking, not trying to come across as accusatory at all towards you. I haven't seen enough one way or the other to make up my mind yet, especially when the class of 2016 is the most important thing he can do right now.
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I'm not saying it is a given Manning will fail here -- the jury is still out on that, from my POV. Manning is unproven is just about every way right now.

Yes, he first recruiting class was nice, but it is one class so doesn't exactly mean that he will land even better classes in the future. Although, 2 Top 50-100 guys and one guy just out of the top 100 isn't a program turning class. It is a foundation class. We are in agreement that the 2016 class is a top priority.


My entire point about Manning is that he is a very raw and inexperienced coach and now he is in charge of a program that we all know was a absolute dumpster fire when he took over 8 months ago. Putting a guy with 2 years coaching into such a shitty situation makes me nervous.


We agree that it is a rebuilding process, but Manning has never had to rebuild a program before. I hope he will do wonderfully here, but there is simply no evidence that anybody can look at and have a reasonable belief that he will do well or do poorly. There are no past results to look at and draw a conclusion from, for instance, like we have with Clawson and our football program. Clawson has rebuilt numerous programs up from the doldrums or worst, so I feel comfortable with him being in charge. I cannot feel comfortable about a guy with minimal experience taking over a situation as dire as REDACTED made the Wake Forest basketball job. I just can't.


And again, I'm not saying that Manning has failed or will fail -- I don't know if he will or not. But he was a very dangerous and risky pick to put into this situation.



My point about him throwing darts at a board, btw, is because he just keeps putting out different personnel sets and hoping he is going to find a magic formula. I get that for the most part, but I don't think that would be smart to continue to do into the new year. You just gotta pick the guys you are most comfortable and settle on a solid rotation by the time the true conference schedule rolls around. And if he is doing that, then he has the master plan that I was talking about.




Oh, and I don't give a shit about being right in internet debates. Do I lord it over people's heads about REDACTED? Because I'm pretty sure I don't and I still would prefer it if I was wrong about that clown car of a coach, but as time told, I didn't happen to be wrong. But if Manning fails here then I won't be happy and I sure as shit won't gloat over it.
 
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