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WFU Hoops: '24-'25 Roster Construction Thread: +Spillers/Biliew/Cosby/Johnson/Abass

Yeah, I feel like if you have the #1 portal class you probably overpaid for big names.
 
Strickland33 said:
Is there a Forbes Out contingent beyond 2&2?

I’m almost positive everyone is more or less waiting to see how he does next year.
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Yes, the logical place to be right now is wait and see, perhaps with a bit of psyche-protective skepticism, given many years of not mediocre, but awful, results. Without addressing 2&2, who I agree with some and disagree with other times...

There is a difference between being Forbes out (I think there are a handful at most here) and Forbes wait-and-see (which is where I fall). My thing is that much like some folks' negativity trumps their logic, there are some folks who will explain away literally anything in order to, I don't know, maintain their optimism? Be a good fan? Something.

Having said that, I could not agree more with this one from 2&2.

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Yes. It really is amazing that 64 teams, every season, have overcome those massive hurdles and not used them as excuses. But we are on our second decade of excuses, it is who we are.
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If WFU put forth the effort at actually being good that some put into spinning facts in a way to explain or excuse what has been maybe the worst span of actual basketball performance in major conference history, we wouldn't be hoping that, just maybe, next year will be the year that we do what hundreds of other teams have done in the last two decades: make the tournament. And, FWIW, the fact that making the tournament has become the litmus test for being good is a whole other thing.

There is just no way to have anything close to confidence in our basketball program without a healthy dose of cognitive bias. The glass half-empty crowd has it. But so does the glass half-full crowd.
 
Kent said:
Yes, the logical place to be right now is wait and see, perhaps with a bit of psyche-protective skepticism, given many years of not mediocre, but awful, results. Without addressing 2&2, who I agree with some and disagree with other times...

There is a difference between being Forbes out (I think there are a handful at most here) and Forbes wait-and-see (which is where I fall). My thing is that much like some folks' negativity trumps their logic, there are some folks who will explain away literally anything in order to, I don't know, maintain their optimism? Be a good fan? Something.

Having said that, I could not agree more with this one from 2&2.



If WFU put forth the effort at actually being good that some put into spinning facts in a way to explain or excuse what has been maybe the worst span of actual basketball performance in major conference history, we wouldn't be hoping that, just maybe, next year will be the year that we do what hundreds of other teams have done in the last two decades: make the tournament. And, FWIW, the fact that making the tournament has become the litmus test for being good is a whole other thing.

There is just no way to have anything close to confidence in our basketball program without a healthy dose of cognitive bias. The glass half-empty crowd has it. But so does the glass half-full crowd.
Click to expand...
the dumb part about that post from 2&2 is that it’s not the same 64 teams making it every year. It’s teams that have put themselves in a position with their roster and schedule to be chosen. Forbes has done that twice. He’s going to keep doing it. He’s going to break through. If you can’t see that I don’t know what to tell you.

And yeah the college basketball world is way different than it was in the 90s and 00s. Look around at major conference teams and show me who is making the tournament every year outside of the blue bloods.
 
deacon14 said:
I genuinely don't understand the confidence that multiple posters have stated this with.

Biliew, Spillers, Johnson, Cosby, and Abass is the maybe the best transfer portal class that Forbes has ever brought in on paper. Retaining Cam/Reid/PFred is more significant talent returning than Forbes has ever had. And Juke is the most excited we've been about a freshman (other than maybe PFred).

Why are we so sure that the team as is won't be good enough to make it?
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I don't get it either. to me we are close to having a 2nd weekend team.
 
we didn't lose to Colgate but that game stands out as a low point as far as not-losses go
 
I don't think relying on one of Billew/Cosby/Juke to be a high-level ACC player immediately is going to get it done. Possible, but a risky bet. And we can't wait for them to be good.

The portal season is not over, there is time for another big get. But the roster as its constructed right now is bubblish.
 
Kent said:
Yes, the logical place to be right now is wait and see, perhaps with a bit of psyche-protective skepticism, given many years of not mediocre, but awful, results. Without addressing 2&2, who I agree with some and disagree with other times...

There is a difference between being Forbes out (I think there are a handful at most here) and Forbes wait-and-see (which is where I fall). My thing is that much like some folks' negativity trumps their logic, there are some folks who will explain away literally anything in order to, I don't know, maintain their optimism? Be a good fan? Something.

Having said that, I could not agree more with this one from 2&2.



If WFU put forth the effort at actually being good that some put into spinning facts in a way to explain or excuse what has been maybe the worst span of actual basketball performance in major conference history, we wouldn't be hoping that, just maybe, next year will be the year that we do what hundreds of other teams have done in the last two decades: make the tournament. And, FWIW, the fact that making the tournament has become the litmus test for being good is a whole other thing.

There is just no way to have anything close to confidence in our basketball program without a healthy dose of cognitive bias. The glass half-empty crowd has it. But so does the glass half-full crowd.
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree with this more. Just as some of you don't understand the caution from some of us about our NCAA prospects for next season, I don't understand the absolute certainty some of you seem to have that Forbes has now assembled a tournament team.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
the dumb part about that post from 2&2 is that it’s not the same 64 teams making it every year. It’s teams that have put themselves in a position with their roster and schedule to be chosen. Forbes has done that twice. He’s going to keep doing it. He’s going to break through. If you can’t see that I don’t know what to tell you.

And yeah the college basketball world is way different than it was in the 90s and 00s. Look around at major conference teams and show me who is making the tournament every year outside of the blue bloods.
Click to expand...

I think his point was that a lot of teams did it, but we didn't. If it were the same 64 teams, that would support the argument that it takes a really special program to make the tournament, especially if you're in a decent conference where you can't rationally count on an auto-bid. Can you tell me objectively where (or at least the general area where) the line of acceptable results are over, say, 20 years, and then how far above or below the line we have been? Please take into account that all the changes and headwinds we are facing as college sports destructs/evolves affect all teams. Not just us.

Because if WFU basketball has been anywhere close to objectively acceptable during that period, I'm baffled. Look, I want WFU to be good as much as anyone. I just don't think taking the position that the state of the program is anything other than a disaster (overall; even really bad teams have good games, brief spans, etc.) is consistent with wanting that.

And it's not every year. It's any year.

I'm slowly gravitating to the idea that maybe major conference sports just isn't for us. I could get there if it was only basketball and football. But we are really good at actually competing in the non-revenue sports. I would hate to lose that. But I'm not seeing the basketball program the way others do. I may be wrong, but if I am it's not because we almost made the tournament the last couple of years.
 
Kent said:
Can you tell me objectively where (or at least the general area where) the line of acceptable results are over, say, 20 years, and then how far above or below the line we have been?
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Are you judging our current coach over what we have done over 20 years?

Is the idea that we should fire Forbes because we are angry about how bad [Redacted] and Manning were?
 
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