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TBR
03-22-2011, 03:15 PM
http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2011/mar/22/wsmet01-city-continues-discussions-about-selling-c-ar-880312/

Didn't see this posted.

TuffaloDeac10
03-22-2011, 10:36 PM
UGH I hope we don't buy it.

TBR
03-22-2011, 10:42 PM
At $9m I don't see how we can't buy it. The land has got to be worth $4-5m and letting it fall into someone else's hands would be risky wrt parking.

TuffaloDeac10
03-22-2011, 10:51 PM
I probably am overlooking the parking point. I just think it'd be impossible for Wake to run the Joel profitably. We don't need a $1mm a year loss on our AD's books.

TBR
03-22-2011, 10:54 PM
I probably am overlooking the parking point. I just think it'd be impossible for Wake to run the Joel profitably. We don't need a $1mm a year loss on our AD's books.

The current situation isn't the situation of the future though.

The question is really whether it's better for us to own the Joel or to lease it from someone else at a high rate. The status quo is not an option.

IrishSlim
03-22-2011, 10:55 PM
I know nothing about the practicalities of building an on-campus arena, but how much would that cost, approximately? (Never mind the where to put it issue.)

ChaosDeac
03-22-2011, 10:56 PM
I probably am overlooking the parking point. I just think it'd be impossible for Wake to run the Joel profitably. We don't need a $1mm a year loss on our AD's books.

We already have at least a $1 million a year loss unless Bzz turns it around. Someone had to say it.

FearTheDeaconChin
03-22-2011, 10:57 PM
I know nothing about the practicalities of building an on-campus arena, but how much would that cost, approximately? (Never mind the where to put it issue.)

Thread on the scout board has it at around 40-60 million for a 10,000 seat arena.

TBR
03-22-2011, 10:57 PM
I know nothing about the practicalities of building an on-campus arena, but how much would that cost, approximately? (Never mind the where to put it issue.)

~$60-80m is a reasonable guess.

With regards to location, I do not think there is a practical place for it. It is my opinion that the administration made a crucial mistake when planning the campus. The athletic complex should be wear the faculty drive housing is. Faculty housing could have been where satellite parking is currently.

TheIshThatSaved WakeForest
03-22-2011, 11:02 PM
Logistically speaking, where would we put an on-campus arena? Parking would be a damn nightmare, that's for sure.

However, it would be nice to have a smaller, more Wake-specific stadium. I'm pretty jealous of what UVA has at JPJ. If we don't ever build something new, we at least need a Tim Duncan statue or something outside the Joel.

FearTheDeaconChin
03-22-2011, 11:02 PM
~$60-80m is a reasonable guess.

so basically 60-70 million more than it would cost to buy the Joel. The Joel has at least 15 more good years for Wake, while we raise money for something different.

PhDeac
03-22-2011, 11:05 PM
The catch is the same building that cost $60-80 million to build now will probably cost $150 million or more in 15 years.

Regardless, I think that land is where such a building would end up.

IamThunderbolt
03-22-2011, 11:07 PM
The catch is the same building that cost $60-80 million to build now will probably cost $150 million or more in 15 years.

Regardless, I think that land is where such a building would end up.

Especially since it seems that the current location of the joel will soon be on campus

TBR
03-22-2011, 11:07 PM
Logistically speaking, where would we put an on-campus arena? Parking would be a damn nightmare, that's for sure.

However, it would be nice to have a smaller, more Wake-specific stadium. I'm pretty jealous of what UVA has at JPJ. If we don't ever build something new, we at least need a Tim Duncan statue or something outside the Joel.

The ideal thing would be an on campus arena designed after McArthur court.

Practically speaking, the Joel with a redone concourse, a face-lifted exterior (old Virginia brick please and no more of that awful greenish color), and a lowered ceiling of some sort would be a vast improvement.

GreenDeac
03-23-2011, 08:43 AM
The ideal thing would be an on campus arena designed after McArthur court.

Practically speaking, the Joel with a redone concourse, a face-lifted exterior (old Virginia brick please and no more of that awful greenish color), and a lowered ceiling of some sort would be a vast improvement.

Exactly. I think you have to jump on buying the building if the price is below 10 million. If it's currently being offered for around 8 million and they don't get much interest who says we can't negotiate it down to 5 million. In these economic times the city of Winston isn't going to want to just sit on something thats losing a ton of money every year.

Instead of spending 60-80 million on a new arena, spend the 5-8 million to buy the Joel and pour 20 million into renovating it to Wakes specifications.

I really think by buying and renovating the building Wake would come out ahead in financial terms in addition to the benefits of having a true athletic campus that the school can grow toward in the future.

WFUtoUSC
03-23-2011, 08:54 AM
I've maintained for some time now that the best long-term on-campus arena would be a gutted and remodeled Reynolds gym.

DeaconCav06
03-23-2011, 08:56 AM
The key is where does this fit into the 25 year Plan for wake and what would it cost then. Wake seems intent on owning that block of real estate. If wake develops that area into a hopping spot what could we later potentially sell the Joel for?

GreenDeac
03-23-2011, 08:56 AM
I've maintained for some time now that the best long-term on-campus arena would be a gutted and remodeled Reynolds gym.

I think you'd have to knock it down and start over. Not sure it would be a big enough space either.

Also, where would people park?

lawdeke
03-23-2011, 08:58 AM
If Wake does buy the Joel..... do we rename it? Would have every right to.

DeaconCav06
03-23-2011, 09:05 AM
We have to retain lawrence Joel but can rename as long as that name is still prominent. Bb&t field at grove stadium n

Deacon2002
03-23-2011, 09:21 AM
I think buying the Joel is probably the right move, but I still think 8 or 9 million is overpaying for the Joel. Who else besides Wake would be interested in buying a Coliseum that is a money loser and in need of renovating either now or in the near future in this economy?

In my eyes Wake would have the clear upper hand in any negotiations with the City and if the powers that be decide that purchasing the Joel is in our best interest then they need to take advantage of that and engage in some hardball negotiating...

WFUtoUSC
03-23-2011, 08:24 PM
I think you'd have to knock it down and start over. Not sure it would be a big enough space either.

Also, where would people park?

Parking was something I hadn't really figured into the equation, but what I had envisioned for the actual gym was gutting was pretty much everything inside and putting in really high-angled seating. I have no idea what the actual dimension, seating capacity, etc. would be, just saying the convenience of the on-campus arena and high-rise seating would make for a daunting arena

tsywake
03-23-2011, 08:39 PM
Reynolds is much too small to try and renovate even without the parking concerns. A great blueprint IMO would be Reynolds Gym at State. That building is much larger than our Reynolds, but I'd kill for a gym like that at Wake. They lost their entire home court advantage when they moved into the RBC.

As some others have said, we can buy and renovate the Joel into a killer arena for significantly less than building new. I honestly see WFU eventually moving all of the athletics fields/buildings to the new athletics campus and turning the existing buildings into student buildings. I have no evidence of this, but it's my hunch from the actions of the past 10-15 years.

deacinwnc
03-23-2011, 08:42 PM
It's hard to see how buying it would be of any benefit unless the long term plan is to secure the land to eventually gut the Joel and build a Wake specific arena there in 15 to 20 years. I can't imagine there are any other buyers out there, plus we have a lease so it's not as if we would be chucked out. The operating costs would likely be prohibitive. There's a reason the city wants to sell it--it's a money loser.

BeachBumDeac
03-23-2011, 08:45 PM
If you look at Wake's real estate acquisitions in that area, it's pretty clear they're going to buy the Joel if given the chance.

Wakeforest22890
03-23-2011, 08:46 PM
If you look at Wake's real estate acquisitions in that area, it's pretty clear they're going to buy the Joel if given the chance.

This...the question is will there be renovations and will they sell naming rights to BB&T(while keeping LJ in the name somewhere)?

Teamramrod
03-23-2011, 08:46 PM
Great!! Let's buy the Joel so we can put the pews back in so it looks even more empty!!!!

BeachBumDeac
03-23-2011, 08:48 PM
This...the question is will there be renovations and will they sell naming rights to BB&T(while keeping LJ in the name somewhere)?

They will definitely eventually renovate it. I don't think it'll be immediate. And selling naming rights may be the only way to fund that renovation.

tsywake
03-23-2011, 08:48 PM
If you look at Wake's real estate acquisitions in that area, it's pretty clear they're going to buy the Joel if given the chance.

Agreed. Wrt our lease, we are paying something around $1 a year due to our money that was put up for the construction. I seriously doubt out lease agreement will be that favorable if the Joel gets sold to an outside company.

FearTheDeaconChin
03-23-2011, 08:57 PM
It's hard to see how buying it would be of any benefit unless the long term plan is to secure the land to eventually gut the Joel and build a Wake specific arena there in 15 to 20 years. I can't imagine there are any other buyers out there, plus we have a lease so it's not as if we would be chucked out. The operating costs would likely be prohibitive. There's a reason the city wants to sell it--it's a money loser.

The land itself has to be worth a couple mil. What could be done with the building, after it's served it's purpose as a sports arena? University owned housing/commercial complex for undergrad/grad/faculty? It's a big stretch, but Erwin Square in Durham is a good example.

BeachBumDeac
03-23-2011, 09:02 PM
The land itself has to be worth a couple mil. What could be done with the building, after it's served it's purpose as a sports arena? University owned housing/commercial complex for undergrad/grad/faculty? It's a big stretch, but Erwin Square in Durham is a good example.

um, where would Wake play basketball?

You think we have the money to build another arena from scratch?

IT's not going to outlive its purpose as a sports arena for decades

FearTheDeaconChin
03-23-2011, 09:09 PM
um, where would Wake play basketball?

You think we have the money to build another arena from scratch?

IT's not going to outlive its purpose as a sports arena for decades

Wake is going to do something to cut their losses if they buy the place and it doesn't seem as if the odd concert and rodeo are enough to make it profitable.

BeachBumDeac
03-23-2011, 09:12 PM
Wake is going to do something to cut their losses if they buy the place and it doesn't seem as if the odd concert and rodeo are enough to make it profitable.

Wake isn't buying it to make it profitable. They're buying it to ensure that in the future they have to spend less money building a new arena or reupping the lease with someone other than the city than they would have to spend renovating the Joel.

DeaconCav06
03-23-2011, 09:27 PM
Operating at a loss is cheaper than building a new arena. Our lease expires in 2015. Y'all are some short sighted mothers.

FearTheDeaconChin
03-23-2011, 09:35 PM
Operating at a loss is cheaper than building a new arena. Our lease expires in 2015. Y'all are some short sighted mothers.

Of course it is cheaper to play in the Joel now, 50+ million dollars cheaper. This is all just speculation on what could be done with that land and building, once Wake owns it.

GreenDeac
03-24-2011, 08:47 AM
Of course it is cheaper to play in the Joel now, 50+ million dollars cheaper. This is all just speculation on what could be done with that land and building, once Wake owns it.

If Wake buys the Joel they're not going to knock it down and rebuild another arena somewhere else. There are much cheaper places for them to buy land and build your "housing projects complex" or whatever you're talking about.

If Wake does buy the Joel I could see them starting with some minor renovations like we've seen with the baseball park, while they try and sell the naming rights. Eventually we would hopefully see major renovations and a downsizing of the arena.

HeavyPetter
03-24-2011, 09:37 AM
Some of you are losing sight of how a lease negotiation on the Joel would take place. Whoever owns the Joel, has to have Wake as a tenant to make the property viable. The lease is what gives any value to the property outside of redevelopment of the land, which isn't going to happen anytime soon. Without Wake as a tenant, it would probably be cheaper for the property owner to shut the thing down and padlock it, rather than trying to have an event every couple of weeks.

There is a lot more revenue to the property owner than simply the lease rate. There are concessions, parking, and some agreement can be made on a percentage of ticket sales as well.

Wake holds a lot of cards here. Ultimately, I think Wake will end up buying the arena because the location makes senses, as BBD pointed out.

I think the only realistic current option for another arena is at the back of the Blue Lot along University Parkway, although we would need to buyup that self-storage and that past-its-prime hotel. This location is about 0.5 miles closer to "campus," makeing it a lot more accessible on foot. That would mean building the new arena while continuting play in the Joel and eventually demolishing the Joel. Still, that's a very long range option (decades).

We also need the W-S economy to take another nosedive so we can buy Old Town CC.

rawarr
03-24-2011, 09:42 AM
Buy church, play basketball there.

HeavyPetter
03-24-2011, 09:46 AM
We really need to get the state to give Wake Forest eminent domain powers so we can crush any property owner who stands in our way. Write your NC State Representative on this very important issue.

ZDeac
03-24-2011, 02:50 PM
1. On campus basketball stadium won't ever happen. There's no practical location. Parking would be a nightmare. Plus, look at what's happening down around the joel. Football, baseball, tennis, and basketball are all down there, and Wake continues to buy up land. That area is absolutely the future of Wake athletics.

2. Long-term perspective practically requires Wake to buy the Joel. Eventually it will get remodeled or rebuilt, but that's not really the point. They may take a loss on operating it, but it can't be all bad. They'll still be able to have other events there, plus they'll be able to lease the parking for the fair? Maybe?

3. Maybe I just need to read the article closely, but does this include the annex, etc?

LilburnDeac
03-24-2011, 04:25 PM
Reynolds is much too small to try and renovate even without the parking concerns. A great blueprint IMO would be Reynolds Gym at State. That building is much larger than our Reynolds, but I'd kill for a gym like that at Wake. They lost their entire home court advantage when they moved into the RBC.

As some others have said, we can buy and renovate the Joel into a killer arena for significantly less than building new. I honestly see WFU eventually moving all of the athletics fields/buildings to the new athletics campus and turning the existing buildings into student buildings. I have no evidence of this, but it's my hunch from the actions of the past 10-15 years.

Reynold's Coliseum at NCSU seated 12,400 for bball. And it seemed like 3/4 of those seats were behind the baskets. But it was a great homecourt advantage.

DinDC
03-25-2011, 06:37 PM
1. On campus basketball stadium won't ever happen. There's no practical location. Parking would be a nightmare. Plus, look at what's happening down around the joel. Football, baseball, tennis, and basketball are all down there, and Wake continues to buy up land. That area is absolutely the future of Wake athletics.

2. Long-term perspective practically requires Wake to buy the Joel. Eventually it will get remodeled or rebuilt, but that's not really the point. They may take a loss on operating it, but it can't be all bad. They'll still be able to have other events there, plus they'll be able to lease the parking for the fair? Maybe?

3. Maybe I just need to read the article closely, but does this include the annex, etc?

You're absolutely right about #1 and #2. The article didn't say anything about the annex. Wake Forest ice hockey? LOL

myDeaconmyhand
03-25-2011, 06:48 PM
You're absolutely right about #1 and #2. The article didn't say anything about the annex. Wake Forest ice hockey? LOL

Wake Forest Hockey games are fun as hell if you bring along a flask, especially when they follow Cyclones games on dollar beer night.

The Rush is On
03-25-2011, 06:54 PM
I'm not sure where I read this, but I think the blueprint for Reynolds Coliseum is the same as Cameron at Duke, just with more room behind the baskets. Always thought that was interesting.

Buying the Joel makes 100 percent sense for Wake Forest in the long term, especially considering the amount of land/development the school has already made across Deacon Blvd/Baity St. No need to tear it down, at least not for years and years.

FreeStateDeac
09-07-2011, 08:15 AM
Last spring there was a lot of board chatter about the city trying to sell the Joel to Wake. Supposedly Ron Wellman was doing a study of the financing.

Whatever happened?

I was hoping that Wake would buy it and then renovate it just like Ariz. State did to a similarly sized arena.

Our basketball program desperately needs something to create some excitement. Right now it's flatlining.

dot com
09-07-2011, 08:17 AM
All our cash is sunk into the jumbotron.

DinDC
09-07-2011, 11:35 PM
Acquiring and Deaconizing the Joel is part of the long-term plan.

http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-priorities-and-phases.cfm

FreeStateDeac
09-08-2011, 05:01 PM
Acquiring and Deaconizing the Joel is part of the long-term plan.

http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-priorities-and-phases.cfm


I did not realize that there was a formal fundraising campaign for this. I have to say that it has not been well-publicized.

Supradeac
09-08-2011, 05:02 PM
I thought we bought it.

Chill22
09-08-2011, 07:18 PM
For hoops, we should instead put a bubble over the end of Groves with the new scoreboard. Take down the goal posts, put the basketball court in the endzone, and let everyone sit on Deacon Hill.

ctdeac13
10-02-2011, 07:08 PM
I have a question about the Joel. I was talking with a woman today who's husband is a professor at Wake. Her husband is also on the development committee which is in charge of creating the new master plan for what Wake will be in the next 30 years. I bring this up because she said that Wake just bought the Joel from the city this past week. I have no idea if this is true. Does anybody with inside info know what the deal is? I would've thought that a deal like this would've made the news somewhere.

GboroDeac
10-02-2011, 07:49 PM
No idea if true, but I know the City has been trying to sell it to Wake for years. The City was losing money on the Joel for the last several years, so not sure why Wake would want to put it on their books.

DirkTheDeac
10-02-2011, 07:53 PM
No annoucement. And I would think there would be headlines in the Journal.

Wakelaw2006
10-02-2011, 08:13 PM
I don't think the City could do it under cover of night. There was nothing in the last City Council meeting agenda about the Joel. If the city sold the Joel, I agree with Dirk - it definitely would have been in the Journal. That's not to say it isn't in the works and the official vote just hasn't been taken and the documents just haven't been signed, but I really doubt it was already sold.

IAppreciateIt
10-02-2011, 08:14 PM
Buy it to raze it.

ctdeac13
10-02-2011, 08:34 PM
Thats what I thought that it would be all over the news. This lady was there with a bunch of kids. It was funny since when she told us they all looked at her and were like you can't tell that and she said, "I don't care, it will be in the news anyways soon."

Maybe a deal has been reached but not voted upon by the city or something. It'll be interesting to see what we do with the Joel if this is true since it needs a lot of work.

WhatUTalkinBout Willis
10-02-2011, 08:41 PM
FINALLY! A scoop on the new boards!

seventwofour
10-02-2011, 09:16 PM
Doesn't seem like a good use of university money.

Wakefan77
10-02-2011, 09:42 PM
Been saying for years that WF needs to do something to that place to give it more of a WF feel. If you are walking around the arena, you'd never know a ballgame was going on inside or that WF plays there. Hopefully if this happens, they would address this issue. I know we would all like an OCA but I for one would be glad if WF did buy it. And for goodness sake please update the darn thing.

89DeaconMike
10-02-2011, 10:25 PM
http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-priorities-and-phases.cfm

Basketball Project - Priorities & Phases - LJVM Ownership



Taking ownership of the Joel will enable Wake Forest to both add to its available practice space as well as enhance the game-day experience of fans. The additional space will allow for a more flexible practice schedule for both the menís and womenís programs. Currently, with only one practice gym and both the men and women vying for practice time, space is at a premium.

Ownership of the Joel will allow Wake Forest complete control over the game-day experience. With the opportunity to brand the building from the outside in, the Joel can be transformed into the indisputable home of Wake Forest Basketball. Wake Forest would also be able to enhance the game day experience by having control over the game day operations such as ushers, concessions, catering, parking, and the Hoops Room.



Basketball Project - Priorities & Phases - "Deacon-izing" the Joel



A key initiative of the basketball project is to create the premier home-court advantage in college basketball. Wake Forest has a passionate fan base that is ready to help us take it to the next level, but the Joel needs to feel like a true home for Wake Forest Basketball. It needs to be transformed into a Wake Forest branded arena that recruits admire, fans love, and TV cameras canít get enough of.

Deacon-izing the Joel will involve the utilization of fan engagement elements, internal and external graphics and state-of-the-art lighting that will identify the Joel as a true home to Wake Forest basketball. The enhanced branding elements will increase exposure of the Wake Forest brand through national TV coverage while the overall atmosphere will be an environment that gets crowds excited and ultimately creates the premier home-court advantage in collegiate basketball.

Deacfreak07
10-02-2011, 10:55 PM
http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-priorities-and-phases.cfm

Basketball Project - Priorities & Phases - LJVM Ownership



Taking ownership of the Joel will enable Wake Forest to both add to its available practice space as well as enhance the game-day experience of fans. The additional space will allow for a more flexible practice schedule for both the menís and womenís programs. Currently, with only one practice gym and both the men and women vying for practice time, space is at a premium.

Ownership of the Joel will allow Wake Forest complete control over the game-day experience. With the opportunity to brand the building from the outside in, the Joel can be transformed into the indisputable home of Wake Forest Basketball. Wake Forest would also be able to enhance the game day experience by having control over the game day operations such as ushers, concessions, catering, parking, and the Hoops Room.



Basketball Project - Priorities & Phases - "Deacon-izing" the Joel



A key initiative of the basketball project is to create the premier home-court advantage in college basketball. Wake Forest has a passionate fan base that is ready to help us take it to the next level, but the Joel needs to feel like a true home for Wake Forest Basketball. It needs to be transformed into a Wake Forest branded arena that recruits admire, fans love, and TV cameras canít get enough of.

Deacon-izing the Joel will involve the utilization of fan engagement elements, internal and external graphics and state-of-the-art lighting that will identify the Joel as a true home to Wake Forest basketball. The enhanced branding elements will increase exposure of the Wake Forest brand through national TV coverage while the overall atmosphere will be an environment that gets crowds excited and ultimately creates the premier home-court advantage in collegiate basketball.

Love the tag. Love this quote. Love the Joel.

Deacfreak07
10-02-2011, 11:06 PM
Really cool stuff on that link all the way around. Thanks for sharing.

DirkTheDeac
10-02-2011, 11:12 PM
I actually think buying the Joel could be a long term win for Wake. We get it on the cheap in this economy. We control events. We have a sports matrix with football, baseball, tennis and basketball. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Wake isn't exactly cash poor. And it puts us in a position to hold ancillary events. Like it or not we have no room for an on campus arena. Making the Joel our own makes a lot of sense to me.

Deacfreak07
10-02-2011, 11:13 PM
I actually think buying the Joel could be a long term win for Wake. We get it on the cheap in this economy. We control events. We have a sports matrix with football, baseball, tennis and basketball. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Wake isn't exactly cash poor. And it puts us in a position to hold ancillary events. Like it or not we have no room for an on campus arena. Making the Joel our own makes a lot of sense to me.

Not to mention, it's a great piece of real estate for future campus expansion.

DirkTheDeac
10-02-2011, 11:35 PM
It's not unsimilar to dumbing into the glass palace. We need space.

childressfor3
10-03-2011, 08:16 AM
I actually think buying the Joel could be a long term win for Wake. We get it on the cheap in this economy. We control events. We have a sports matrix with football, baseball, tennis and basketball. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Wake isn't exactly cash poor. And it puts us in a position to hold ancillary events. Like it or not we have no room for an on campus arena. Making the Joel our own makes a lot of sense to me.

Um yes, its the only thing that makes since. Bball, football and baseball will all be together like it should be. A really nice complex for a school of wakes size. The joel holds a special nlace in my heart since ive been going since its opening. Its still a nice building, the city just put a new roof on it, it just needs updating and to be more deaconized. Have watched a lot of special games in that place. Finally now they will change those green freaking seats upstairs!!!! Ive only have been wishing for this for a
bout 15 years now.

DistrictDeacon
10-03-2011, 08:25 AM
I actually think buying the Joel could be a long term win for Wake. We get it on the cheap in this economy. We control events. We have a sports matrix with football, baseball, tennis and basketball. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Wake isn't exactly cash poor. And it puts us in a position to hold ancillary events. Like it or not we have no room for an on campus arena. Making the Joel our own makes a lot of sense to me.

Wake needs new science buildings way before it needs to own its own (outsized) arena.

bym051d
10-03-2011, 08:27 AM
Wake needs new science buildings way before it needs to own its own (outsized) arena.

Maybe we could build a few more business schools instead. That's the same thing, right?

tsywake
10-03-2011, 08:34 AM
Um yes, its the only thing that makes since. Bball, football and baseball will all be together like it should be. A really nice complex for a school of wakes size. The joel holds a special nlace in my heart since ive been going since its opening. Its still a nice building, the city just put a new roof on it, it just needs updating and to be more deaconized. Have watched a lot of special games in that place. Finally now they will change those green freaking seats upstairs!!!! Ive only have been wishing for this for a
bout 15 years now.

Maybe when we exchange all the bleachers at Groves for chairs, we can get a huge discount and replace the green ones and also the blue and red ones at Ernie Shore.

childressfor3
10-03-2011, 08:40 AM
Maybe when we exchange all the bleachers at Groves for chairs, we can get a huge discount and replace the green ones and also the blue and red ones at Ernie Shore.

Yeah that would be nice.

RacerDeac
10-03-2011, 08:47 AM
Like it or not we have no room for an on campus arena. Making the Joel our own makes a lot of sense to me.

We own the building and it IS an on-campus arena. Maybe not as optimal as building a smaller basketball-only arena, but still miles and miles ahead where we are currently from a fan experience and home court advantage standpoint. Not only do we gain the arena, but we gain the football (and fair, etc) parking revenue of the lots surrounding it as well as a lot of additional land that could be developed in the future if we determine all of the parking is not needed (i.e. auxiliary bball parking can take place at Groves and along the redevelopment taking place in the tailgating zone in order to free up some space).

RacerDeac
10-03-2011, 08:49 AM
Wake needs new science buildings way before it needs to own its own (outsized) arena.

If the city offers any science buildings for sale at a cheap price, I'm sure we'll snatch them up. :thumbsup:

FreeStateDeac
10-03-2011, 04:22 PM
I actually think buying the Joel could be a long term win for Wake. We get it on the cheap in this economy. We control events. We have a sports matrix with football, baseball, tennis and basketball. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Wake isn't exactly cash poor. And it puts us in a position to hold ancillary events. Like it or not we have no room for an on campus arena. Making the Joel our own makes a lot of sense to me.


Great move if true. This will complete the acquisition of the entire parcel that encompasses the basketball, football, baseball, tennis, and ancillary parcels, such as Deacon Blvd. Anyone who has ever done real estate development knows that controlling the entire parcel makes the whole much more valuable than the sum of the individual parts. And, as we all know, if you have the cash this is a super time to be buying real estate (and I'm assuming Wake paid bottom dollar).

While some will (as usual) carp about the purchase, this is very much in Wake's long-term best interest, not only for athletics, but for the university as a whole.

Good move by Ron Wellman. This is about the future, not just next week or next season.

ProfessorDeac
10-03-2011, 04:31 PM
So what happens to all the memorials?

dcon69
10-03-2011, 04:36 PM
Down with the Joel! Bring back the army surplus Quonset Hut including the applause meter. :)

Neurodeac
10-03-2011, 04:39 PM
Down with the Joel! Bring back the army surplus Quonset Hut including the applause meter. :)

... allow smoking in the arena, makes for a unique "atmosphere".

tsywake
10-03-2011, 05:55 PM
So what happens to all the memorials?

JMO, but it should remain the same. IIRC they are still adding Forsyth County veterans to the plaza. It's a great connection to the community, and I'd hate to see it go.

ProfessorDeac
10-03-2011, 06:01 PM
I agree. If the city can honor veterans, no reason Wake can't.

Deac@Heart
10-03-2011, 06:52 PM
Cannot imagine anyway to take down the memorials without a PR disaster.



Buy it to raze it.
No way Joel should be torn down without another arena built and ready to go. Where would Wake play basketball? Greensboro? You may remember we tried that. It did not work very well.

ChaosDeac
10-03-2011, 07:06 PM
Do we keep it the same name? Or change it to BB&T Sony Goodyear Nyquil Doritos Chevrolet Arena?

CarlSpackler88
10-03-2011, 07:11 PM
HIDE YOUR KEYS!

RacerDeac
10-03-2011, 09:58 PM
Do we keep it the same name? Or change it to BB&T Sony Goodyear Nyquil Doritos Chevrolet Arena?

I hope we change the name. Would be silly to buy a sports venue and not take advantage of such a simple money making opportunity.

El Chupacabra
10-04-2011, 09:16 AM
Down with the Joel! Bring back the army surplus Quonset Hut including the applause meter. :)


... allow smoking in the arena, makes for a unique "atmosphere".

Best home court ever!

(for the Winston-Salem T-Birds)

WFFaithful
10-04-2011, 09:26 AM
name should not change

PhDeac
10-04-2011, 09:28 AM
I hope we change the name. Would be silly to buy a sports venue and not take advantage of such a simple money making opportunity.

I disagree.

http://www.ljvm.com/lawrencejoel.html

RacerDeac
10-04-2011, 09:32 AM
I disagree.

http://www.ljvm.com/lawrencejoel.html

I know all about the name. I grew up in/around Winston-Salem and I was there the night they opened the doors of the building to the public. Still have the memorial medallions they were passing out at the door. It's easy enough to keep the Lawrence Joel name/memorial and tack on naming rights as well. There's almost no way that a corporate name doesn't end up on the building in some shape or fashion, IMO.

El Chupacabra
10-04-2011, 09:34 AM
Yeah, this wouldn't be us selling the naming rights and taking the name away from someone who gave us money a million years back.

Still wouldn't be surprised if we sold the name of the court, "arena", or the vomitorium from which the players enter or something.

Ohio State plays in the Value City Arena at the Jerome Schottenstein Center, for instance.

ETA - Ha, looks like one of the tags already suggested that.

tsywake
10-04-2011, 09:46 AM
Still wouldn't be surprised if we sold the name of the court, "arena", or the vomitorium from which the players enter or something.


Thats becoming quite the trend here recently, especially for former coaches. Koach k court and Cremins Court come to mind.

PhDeac
10-04-2011, 09:51 AM
I know all about the name. I grew up in/around Winston-Salem and I was there the night they opened the doors of the building to the public. Still have the memorial medallions they were passing out at the door. It's easy enough to keep the Lawrence Joel name/memorial and tack on naming rights as well. There's almost no way that a corporate name doesn't end up on the building in some shape or fashion, IMO.

The Groves family disagrees.

WhatUTalkinBout Willis
10-04-2011, 09:55 AM
I don't give a crap what they name it, I just want it to have less seats

DeacDaddy
10-04-2011, 09:58 AM
#krispykremekourt, hilarious.

Making our home court experience better will only aid the recruiting process, which is already getting some nice momentum.

RacerDeac
10-04-2011, 10:14 AM
The Groves family disagrees.

1) Not really even close to the same thing.
2) No need for a #2.

Ok, let me explain. There is a huge memorial out in front of the building. The idea and name of the Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial can't and won't go away unless the memorial is razed. It's far different from a family name that was added to a facility back in 1968 due to a $$ contribution, that was later superseded by another large $$ contribution to seriously upgrade said facility. The actual name of the building will likely always include a reference to LJ, but I see no reason not to tack on "BB&T Complex" or something similar as the marketing name if we can make a few million $$ to offset the losses we'll take operating LJVM. We already struggle to compete facilities wise with larger institutions. We need every advantage we can get.

LilburnDeac
10-04-2011, 10:44 AM
1) Not really even close to the same thing.
2) No need for a #2.

Ok, let me explain. There is a huge memorial out in front of the building. The idea and name of the Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial can't and won't go away unless the memorial is razed. It's far different from a family name that was added to a facility back in 1966 due to a $$ contribution, that was later superseded by another large $$ contribution to seriously upgrade said facility. The actual name of the building will likely always include a reference to LJ, but I see no reason not to tack on "BB&T Complex" or something similar as the marketing name if we can make a few million $$ to offset the losses we'll take operating LJVM. We already struggle to compete facilities wise with larger institutions. We need every advantage we can get.

I agree with this. But I also remember a lot of talk about how the Groves name was still going to be prominent when BB&T bought the naming rights. I may be wrong but I remember it being mentioned that it would be BB&T Field at Groves Stadium. But you certainly don't see the Groves Stadium name anywhere now.

RacerDeac
10-04-2011, 10:47 AM
But you certainly don't see the Groves Stadium name anywhere now.

I found it in one place. ;)

http://wakeforestsports.cstv.com/trads/wake-grovesstdm.html

ChaosDeac
10-04-2011, 12:07 PM
For whoever tagged "cp3 court", that would be a bad choice. We'd have a court that only went to midcourt before deciding to take its hardwood to a NBA arena

ProfessorDeac
10-04-2011, 02:55 PM
For whoever tagged "cp3 court", that would be a bad choice. We'd have a court that only went to midcourt before deciding to take its hardwood to a NBA arena

Gross.

KeEpEr
10-04-2011, 03:13 PM
I don't give a crap what they name it, I just want it to have less seats

How can you have less than a seat?

LilburnDeac
10-04-2011, 03:25 PM
I found it in one place. ;)

http://wakeforestsports.cstv.com/trads/wake-grovesstdm.html

I'm glad to see that. It is disturbing to look in the Media Guide/Game Programs and see records for BB&T Field, when they are actually records set in Groves Stadium. The 2006 ACC Champs played in Groves Stadium, not BB&T Field. I know it is nitpicky but it seems like trying to rewrite history.

Wakefan77
10-04-2011, 04:20 PM
I'm glad to see that. It is disturbing to look in the Media Guide/Game Programs and see records for BB&T Field, when they are actually records set in Groves Stadium. The 2006 ACC Champs played in Groves Stadium, not BB&T Field. I know it is nitpicky but it seems like trying to rewrite history.

Exactly. It's like when they say that Dale Earnhardt was a 7 time Nextel Cup champion. Wrong he's a 7 time Winston Cup Champion.

1976Deac
10-04-2011, 04:38 PM
Not to mention, it's a great piece of real estate for future campus expansion.

Yep.

DieHardDeacon
10-06-2011, 02:53 PM
The "Take Ownership of the Joel" page as a basketball project priority page on Deaconclub.com has been removed. It was there yesterday.

NoVaDeac
10-06-2011, 03:01 PM
interesting... very interesting

94Deac
10-06-2011, 03:08 PM
So dare I say it- center court needs to have student seating. Especially the side seen on TV. It will never happen but it needs to. College basketball is about the students and they're the ones who should be sitting courtside. Any fatcat donor who truly wants to support WF basketball should have no problem sitting a few rows back. And a snowball's chance...

TBR
10-06-2011, 03:09 PM
Announcement before tomorrow's game maybe?

liveanddiedeac
10-06-2011, 03:13 PM
... allow smoking in the arena, makes for a unique "atmosphere".

I can still remember the smell of cigeratte smoke and urine that would hit you in face when you would walk into the old coliseum. :thumbsup:

Complacent Deac
10-06-2011, 03:21 PM
I have a question about the Joel. I was talking with a woman today who's husband is a professor at Wake. Her husband is also on the development committee which is in charge of creating the new master plan for what Wake will be in the next 30 years. I bring this up because she said that Wake just bought the Joel from the city this past week. I have no idea if this is true. Does anybody with inside info know what the deal is? I would've thought that a deal like this would've made the news somewhere.

Or did her husband see a PLAN to buy the Joel as part of the master plan for the next 30 years? He is a professor - need to start there :)

Not all profs have their shit together like PhDeac.

rjequalsmj
10-06-2011, 03:24 PM
So dare I say it- center court needs to have student seating. Especially the side seen on TV. It will never happen but it needs to. College basketball is about the students and they're the ones who should be sitting courtside. Any fatcat donor who truly wants to support WF basketball should have no problem sitting a few rows back. And a snowball's chance...

We dont have enough students that come to games to make it look decent.

94Deac
10-06-2011, 03:27 PM
Yeah that was in my mind too but some kind of seat re-arranging could make it happen. Maybe something like GaTech has on the baselines. Regardless, I'd rather see Deac students courtside than 70-yr olds in blue sweaters.

KeEpEr
10-06-2011, 03:32 PM
So dare I say it- center court needs to have student seating. Especially the side seen on TV. It will never happen but it needs to. College basketball is about the students and they're the ones who should be sitting courtside. Any fatcat donor who truly wants to support WF basketball should have no problem sitting a few rows back. And a snowball's chance...

No it is not about the students alone.

94Deac
10-06-2011, 03:34 PM
No it is not about the students alone.

Did not say it was. Care to contribute more than your usual drive-by, bird-dropping, rhetorical shots or do you just not really have anything to add?

pinochadeac
10-06-2011, 04:22 PM
Agree that students should be courtside. NC State has a nice setup.

KeEpEr
10-06-2011, 04:51 PM
Did not say it was. Care to contribute more than your usual drive-by, bird-dropping, rhetorical shots or do you just not really have anything to add?

You said college basketball was about the students.

liveanddiedeac
10-06-2011, 04:51 PM
http://www.digitalforsyth.org/jpg/uzz/evj/uzz_evj_02140.jpg

KeEpEr
10-06-2011, 04:54 PM
Agree that students should be courtside. NC State has a nice setup.

They are courtside. On the south side of the court.

NoVaDeac
10-06-2011, 05:25 PM
They are courtside. On the south side of the court.

you're being an ass. Just thought you should know.

Deacfreak07
10-06-2011, 05:52 PM
What is the precedent for naming the entire entertainment complex including Hooks, Joel, and BB&T. Put the money into upfitting the whole area to make it flow well.

coredeac
10-06-2011, 06:06 PM
What is the precedent for naming the entire entertainment complex including Hooks, Joel, and BB&T. Put the money into upfitting the whole area to make it flow well.

This would be outstanding. Hopefully, if and when the economy improves, Wake can accomplish morphing all three into one first-class complex.

I would consider closing Deacon Blvd as part of the long-term plan so as to give a more unified feel to the entire area.

KeEpEr
10-06-2011, 08:30 PM
you're being an ass. Just thought you should know.

I don't understand. Isn't the student section downstairs, courtside, on the south end of the arena? I thought that is where they sat.

GreenDeac
10-06-2011, 08:39 PM
I don't understand. Isn't the student section downstairs, courtside, on the south end of the arena? I thought that is where they sat.

Yes, that is where they sit. You don't have to be an ass.


I actually think having the students behind the basket is the best place for them. I think it helps create a true homecourt advantage when the student section is packed and the visiting team has to shoot against them in the second half. Hopefully they don't ever try to put in that ridiculous riser thing they tried a few years ago.

KeEpEr
10-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Yes, that is where they sit. You don't have to be an ass.


I actually think having the students behind the basket is the best place for them. I think it helps create a true homecourt advantage when the student section is packed and the visiting team has to shoot against them in the second half. Hopefully they don't ever try to put in that ridiculous riser thing they tried a few years ago.

Someone says students should sit courtside. I say they already sit courtside. You agree and then call me an ass. I don't understand. Please explain.

tsywake
10-06-2011, 09:39 PM
So dare I say it- center court needs to have student seating. Especially the side seen on TV. It will never happen but it needs to. College basketball is about the students and they're the ones who should be sitting courtside. Any fatcat donor who truly wants to support WF basketball should have no problem sitting a few rows back. And a snowball's chance...


Someone says students should sit courtside. I say they already sit courtside. You agree and then call me an ass. I don't understand. Please explain.

Center court does not equal courtside. Yes, 94 described it differently the second time, but even a 2nd grader knows he was still talking about center court.

WhatUTalkinBout Willis
10-06-2011, 09:40 PM
keeper being keeper. Even when I'm being a giant ass I still know it's less than 1/4 keeper ass.

KeEpEr
10-06-2011, 10:01 PM
But he didn't say center court.

GreenDeac
10-06-2011, 10:15 PM
But he didn't say center court.

Stop acting like a child, everyone knew what he meant. Annoying small kids play the question game where they keep asking something over and over until an adult spells it out for them. Adults can usually use their brains to figure things out for themselves.

The Evil Deacon
10-06-2011, 10:49 PM
Stop acting like a child, everyone knew what he meant. Annoying small kids play the question game where they keep asking something over and over until an adult spells it out for them. Adults can usually use their brains to figure things out for themselves.

Agreed.

ChaosDeac
10-07-2011, 10:32 AM
Whoever is neg repping me (besides RJMJ being upfront about it), my comment about CP3 court was meant as a joke. I'll post a picture of my CP3 Wake and NO jerseys if you want proof that he is my favorite bball player.

ddeacs98
10-07-2011, 10:47 AM
If Wake buys (or bought) the Joel, will that include the annex?

KeEpEr
10-07-2011, 11:15 AM
Stop acting like a child, everyone knew what he meant. Annoying small kids play the question game where they keep asking something over and over until an adult spells it out for them. Adults can usually use their brains to figure things out for themselves.

I didn't.

tsywake
10-07-2011, 11:50 AM
If Wake buys (or bought) the Joel, will that include the annex?

The question is also valid for the fairgrounds. That whole area is currently owned by the city.

NoVaDeac
10-07-2011, 12:21 PM
I didn't.

Well, in that case, I apologize for calling you an ass. You're apparently just an ignoramus.

/Just in case you need it
ig∑no∑ra∑mus
n. pl. ig∑no∑ra∑mus∑es
An ignorant person.

wefinish
10-08-2011, 05:59 AM
Wasn't sure where to post this....but can someone pull up the "many faces of Bzdelik" I remember seeing it and found it hilarious, but now I can't find it.

I believe that was the name of the gif btw

FreeStateDeac
10-08-2011, 10:13 AM
Wasn't sure where to post this....but can someone pull up the "many faces of Bzdelik" I remember seeing it and found it hilarious, but now I can't find it.

I believe that was the name of the gif btw


How is this even remotely relevant to the purpose of this thread? (same for all the silly back and forth re Keeper).

Could we get back to the purpose of this thread? Specifically, is it confirmed that the Joel has been sold to Wake? Details?

1976Deac
10-08-2011, 10:19 AM
How is this even remotely relevant to the purpose of this thread? (same for all the silly back and forth re Keeper).

Could we get back to the purpose of this thread? Specifically, is it confirmed that the Joel has been sold to Wake? Details?

bttt

childressfor3
01-26-2012, 08:13 PM
Im a land surveyor for tthe city of winston-salem, and today we were asked to start a survey of the coliseum property because it is being sold to wake. I have known for sometime as many of you that this has been in the works for awhile now. Just thought i would let you guys know. Personally i think this is great, and good for both parties, maybe now we can get that thing to look more wake forest as i have wanted ever since it opened. Anyway may take awhile for it to hit the paper, just thought i would let yall know. GO DEACS!

CarlSpackler88
01-26-2012, 08:17 PM
Hide your keys!

tsywake
01-26-2012, 08:18 PM
Awesome. Just the Joel, or the whole complex? Annex, education bldg and fairgrounds?

childressfor3
01-26-2012, 08:24 PM
Awesome. Just the Joel, or the whole complex? Annex, education bldg and fairgrounds?

My understanding as of right now is just the joel.

Deacfreak07
01-26-2012, 08:35 PM
If you can't bring the arena to campus, bring campus to the arena.

The Stig
01-26-2012, 08:42 PM
Sweet! Hope we're able to do a complete renovation and make it actually look Wake Foresty

childressfor3
01-26-2012, 08:56 PM
Sweet! Hope we're able to do a complete renovation and make it actually look Wake Foresty

Yes, i will let you know more when i find out details.

THE DEUCE
01-26-2012, 09:37 PM
DA DEACON DOME!!

BudatWake
01-26-2012, 10:35 PM
Are the throwing in a basketball team too?

FreeStateDeac
01-26-2012, 10:53 PM
I am going to accept your representation that this is true.

This is the most exciting news for Wake athletics since the announced construction of Deacon Tower and the best news for our basketball program since Chris Paul committed.

We have needed to purchase/renovate the Joel for years to make it a true home for Wake basketball. I really hope that the purchase will also include all the ancillary properties between the Fairgrounds and the old RJR building, so Wake will control that entire plat.

beedeacfans
01-26-2012, 11:18 PM
New names:

Dino Dome
Buzz Barn
Odome

childressfor3
01-26-2012, 11:18 PM
like i said, i will let everyone know more when i find out more details. Great news to me though.

Neurodeac
01-26-2012, 11:20 PM
DA DEACON DOME!!

Yeah, we need a new nickname for the Joel that reflects our new ownership. But "Da Deacon Dome", while it rolls of the tongue, it is too close to the Dean Dome.

jccdeac
01-26-2012, 11:22 PM
Have you surveyed for the new monorail as well?

:)

The Stig
01-26-2012, 11:35 PM
Yeah, we need a new nickname for the Joel that reflects our new ownership. But "Da Deacon Dome", while it rolls of the tongue, it is too close to the Dean Dome.

The Black Hole... Something's Destined To Suck.

bym051d
01-26-2012, 11:37 PM
I hope we keep the name and continue to populate the memorial.

ctdeac13
01-26-2012, 11:38 PM
BB&T Arena

Neurodeac
01-26-2012, 11:40 PM
Have you surveyed for the new monorail as well?

:)

Good point! Will definitely need a stop at the joel in addition to the football and baseball stadiums.

GoDeacsGo
01-27-2012, 12:05 AM
New names:

Dino Dome
Buzz Barn
Odome

The Buzz Out House

DemonDEKEn
01-27-2012, 04:14 AM
Despite what the media says, this sale has been a done deal for quite a few months now.

sailordeac
01-27-2012, 04:19 AM
DeaCondom, or just Condom for short.

HeavyPetter
01-27-2012, 07:48 AM
I like "The Fukudome."

tsywake
01-27-2012, 08:24 AM
Great news to me though.

Certainly. Its losing money for the city, along with Bowman Gray Stadium. I hear that they're still looking to sell it to WSSU.

inspectah
01-27-2012, 08:43 AM
Anybody w/ inside info know what WF plans to do w/ the building when we're not using it for university events? I assume we will rent it out to recoup maintenance costs, but my understanding is that the city was having a very hard time doing that on its own the last few years.

Also assume that WF will pay no property taxes on LJVM, but that could change as tax exemptions for wealthy colleges is coming under a lot of fire right now.

DistrictDeacon
01-27-2012, 09:01 AM
Certainly. Its losing money for the city, along with Bowman Gray Stadium. I hear that they're still looking to sell it to WSSU.

So how's Wake going to make it profitable?

childressfor3
01-27-2012, 09:05 AM
Certainly. Its losing money for the city, along with Bowman Gray Stadium. I hear that they're still looking to sell it to WSSU.

They are.

tsywake
01-27-2012, 09:08 AM
So how's Wake going to make it profitable?

From what I've read, the Joel hosts around 100 events per year with WFU Basketball being the most profitable part of it. The Joel lost like $850k last year, but I'm not sure if that was just the Joel or the entire complex. Other than the fair and Ribfest, there isnt much use in the fairgrounds that I know of and there is a lot of upkeep. Now that there isnt a minor league hockey team playing in the Annex, I assume its a money pit as well.

MBDeac08
01-27-2012, 09:11 AM
Certainly. Its losing money for the city, along with Bowman Gray Stadium. I hear that they're still looking to sell it to WSSU.

I wonder affect that would have on Bowman Gray as a racetrack? I imagine WSSU would want to make the stadium more "WSSU-ish" the same as we are going to do with the Joel.

94Deac
01-27-2012, 09:15 AM
I'll be surprised if there isn't a tussle over renaming the building. It'll be a quandary.

tsywake
01-27-2012, 09:20 AM
Here's a link to some interesting facts that were released to the media re: the properties.

http://www.digtriad.com/news/pdf/ljvm.pdf

tsywake
01-27-2012, 09:23 AM
And also a story from 2010 about the lease of Bowman Gray Stadium.

http://www2.journalnow.com/sports/2010/sep/16/wssu-reviews-field-lease-ar-400433/?referer=http://www.google.com/search?q=WSSU+ownership+of+Bowman+Gray+Stadium&hl=en&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS457US457&prmd=ivns&ei=AaUiT7LXHoqltwep--mnAw&start=10&sa=N&shorturl=http://bit.ly/hdppMG

childressfor3
01-27-2012, 09:36 AM
I'll be surprised if there isn't a tussle over renaming the building. It'll be a quandary.

Um, yes. Im just waiting for it. I pray they will dump the joel name, should have never been named that to begin with.

MBDeac08
01-27-2012, 09:37 AM
Um, yes. Im just waiting for it. I pray they will dump the joel name, should have never been named that to begin with.

Why not?

Wakelaw2006
01-27-2012, 09:43 AM
Um, yes. Im just waiting for it. I pray they will dump the joel name, should have never been named that to begin with.


Why not?

Curious about this as well. Hometown Medal of Honor awarded veteran seems like a pretty solid choice to name a building after.

childressfor3
01-27-2012, 09:44 AM
Why not?

Lets just say its a personal opinion, i guess.

94Deac
01-27-2012, 09:48 AM
Why not?

Lawrence Joel was, from what I've heard from those familiar with him or his family, a life-long Tar Heel fan. That's probably what he (and others here over the years) have mentioned as a bone-in-the-craw.

HeavyPetter
01-27-2012, 09:53 AM
I'll be surprised if there isn't a tussle over renaming the building. It'll be a quandary.

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised if it's somehow negotiated into the purchase that we keep the name for a specified number of years or pay extra to change the name. It will be a PR nightmare to change it.

But really, if the city likes the name so much and feels the need to coontinue to honor Mr. Joel, they should be more than willing to step in and move the memorial to a prominent place on the city's property.

HeavyPetter
01-27-2012, 09:53 AM
I hope we keep the name and continue to populate the memorial.

I would prefer that we not have any more dead soldiers.

The Stig
01-27-2012, 09:54 AM
What will happen to all of the memorial stones that have veteran names engraved on them? PR wise, we or the city would have to create a new memorial somewhere or else we'd never live that one down

HeavyPetter
01-27-2012, 09:56 AM
What will happen to all of the memorial stones that have veteran names engraved on them? PR wise, we or the city would have to create a new memorial somewhere or else we'd never live that one down

It's something we'd have to dump in the city's lap. Ultimately, the building is going to be torn down someday. That's what happens to arenas; it's a fact of life. If the city values the memorial and the name, they shouldn't be selling it to a third party.

TownieDeac
01-27-2012, 10:04 AM
I hope we keep the name and continue to populate the memorial.

This


The Buzz Out House

:laugh: awesome

bym051d
01-27-2012, 10:06 AM
I would prefer that we not have any more dead soldiers.

I knew that was coming when I wrote it, just wondered how long.

I would prefer the same, but that's not reality. I hope we continue to honor them by expanding the memorial when the inevitable happens.

HeavyPetter
01-27-2012, 10:13 AM
I knew that was coming when I wrote it, just wondered how long.

I would prefer the same, but that's not reality. I hope we continue to honor them by expanding the memorial when the inevitable happens.

Yeah, I wasn't attacking you. I got a douchey signed negrep from another poster though. But ultimately, Wake Forest doesn't need to be in the business of memorializing the war dead of W-S. that's W-S's job and it needs to be on W-S's land. A basketball arena was a dumb place for the memorial from the beginning.

macktheknife
01-27-2012, 10:23 AM
The Joel Plaza at Wake Forest Arena.

inspectah
01-27-2012, 10:25 AM
thrilled to see macktheknife make an appearance today. great to see you, mack.

bym051d
01-27-2012, 10:30 AM
The BB&T Plaza at BB&T Arena.

BB&T


FTFY

94Deac
01-27-2012, 10:39 AM
Duke Power Arena.

HeavyPetter
01-27-2012, 10:41 AM
Duke Power Arena.

Duke Power is no more. The whole thing is called Duke Energy now.

94Deac
01-27-2012, 10:44 AM
Duke Power is no more. The whole thing is called Duke Energy now.

Duke Energy Arena.

HeavyPetter
01-27-2012, 10:45 AM
That's better.

tsywake
01-27-2012, 10:49 AM
OGBoards.com arena. We're already $1000 closer to buying the naming rights!

:thumbsup:










obviously just kidding

PhonsoINT
01-27-2012, 10:50 AM
Anything with the word "Duke" in it, will certainly not work.

94Deac
01-27-2012, 10:52 AM
Anything with the word "Duke" in it, will certainly not work.

As we showed with Groves Stadium, it's all up to the highest bidder. It would be just deserts if the goddamned place ended up "Krzyzewski Coliseum."

Les Grossman
01-27-2012, 10:52 AM
Lets just say its a personal opinion, i guess.


Racist.

In all seriousness, it's an absolute PR nightmare to change the name of the stadium. Not only was it a hometown veteran who earned the Medal of Honor, but it was the first living black American to do so in close to 100 years. I, personally, think it's great the city decided to honor him when they named the stadium after him. If Wake plans on making the stadium more "wake foresty", and they should, I hope they have worked closely with the city to come up with a smooth transition to continue to honor Mr. Joel along with all the other veterans.

HeavyPetter
01-27-2012, 10:53 AM
Fracking Is A Perfectly Safe Activity Arena

Go
01-27-2012, 10:54 AM
"on campus" arena

DCDeac
01-27-2012, 10:59 AM
Prosser's Palace

MBDeac08
01-27-2012, 11:02 AM
Racist.

In all seriousness, it's an absolute PR nightmare to change the name of the stadium. Not only was it a hometown veteran who earned the Medal of Honor, but it was the first living black American to do so in close to 100 years. I, personally, think it's great the city decided to honor him when they named the stadium after him. If Wake plans on making the stadium more "wake foresty", and they should, I hope they have worked closely with the city to come up with a smooth transition to continue to honor Mr. Joel along with all the other veterans.

Agreed. This is a bigger deal than renaming Ernie Shore Field. We don't need to necessarily keep the name but there does need to be a plan for the city to still honor the veterans as well as Mr. Joel.

I'm going to assume that childressfor3's opinion is based on Joel being a tar heel fan. If I'm wrong please correct me.

The Stig
01-27-2012, 11:05 AM
Some people took issue with the fact that the first one honored all of W-S vets from all wars while this one seemed to honor just him with the others as an afterthought. Some took issue because it was named after a black man. Some took issue because he battled a drug addiction after returning to the States (had any of us seen and done what he did then I think we would to).

MBDeac08
01-27-2012, 11:10 AM
Some people took issue with the fact that the first one honored all of W-S vets from all wars while this one seemed to honor just him with the others as an afterthought. Some took issue because it was named after a black man. Some took issue because he battled a drug addiction after returning to the States (had any of us seen and done what he did then I think we would to).
I can understand that first point, though I disagree. A hometown MOH recipient is a big deal and deserves to be honored. And it seems to me that the monuments outside the stadium are a good memorial to those who have fallen in battle. I do think the memorial probably should be moved to a more accessible spot for citizens. Unless you go to games or events there, your never going to visit the memorials; as far as I know the parking lot is closed most of the time so you can't easily stroll in and check it out.

The Stig
01-27-2012, 11:13 AM
I think it took a while for people to realize that the pillars had individual names on them since walking to the arena, you only see the war/conflict listed. I agree that having a MOH is a huge deal but I think some felt like he got the arena and others got a little bitty stone marker.

I think that the parking lot is open unless there's an event going on.

DeacnDrive
01-27-2012, 12:18 PM
If it doesn't stay the Joel, I would like to see something commemorating Skip.

After all, it is the house that Skip built.

KeEpEr
01-27-2012, 12:58 PM
If it doesn't stay the Joel, I would like to see something commemorating Skip.

After all, it is the house that Skip built.

Oh my. Check the record book.

childressfor3
01-27-2012, 01:01 PM
I can understand that first point, though I disagree. A hometown MOH recipient is a big deal and deserves to be honored. And it seems to me that the monuments outside the stadium are a good memorial to those who have fallen in battle. I do think the memorial probably should be moved to a more accessible spot for citizens. Unless you go to games or events there, your never going to visit the memorials; as far as I know the parking lot is closed most of the time so you can't easily stroll in and check it out.

Not true, you can check out the memorial anytime you want to. As for the whole lawrence joel thing, why not just keep it the way it was. Winston-Salem Memorial Coliseum, instead of naming it after one person.

bym051d
01-27-2012, 02:17 PM
Not true, you can check out the memorial anytime you want to. As for the whole lawrence joel thing, why not just keep it the way it was. Winston-Salem Memorial Coliseum, instead of naming it after one person.

Because that one person was a Medal of Honor winner. That's a huge fucking deal.

inspectah
01-27-2012, 02:20 PM
Once WF owns it the naming rights will go to the highest bidder. If LJ's descendants can pony up the cash, his name can stay. Otherwise, buh-bye.

DistrictDeacon
01-27-2012, 02:24 PM
Once WF owns it the naming rights will go to the highest bidder. If LJ's descendants can pony up the cash, his name can stay. Otherwise, buh-bye.

Exactly. The precedent has already been set.

childressfor3
01-27-2012, 02:51 PM
Because that one person was a Medal of Honor winner. That's a huge fucking deal.

If you think thats the real reason, then i feel really sad for you my friend.

WakeForestRanger
01-27-2012, 02:52 PM
Hopefully, we get enough money from the naming rights to do some serious upgrading and remodling to the building.

Amazon.Com Colesium
Apple Arena

bojanglefunk
01-27-2012, 03:29 PM
I can understand that first point, though I disagree. A hometown MOH recipient is a big deal and deserves to be honored. And it seems to me that the monuments outside the stadium are a good memorial to those who have fallen in battle. I do think the memorial probably should be moved to a more accessible spot for citizens. Unless you go to games or events there, your never going to visit the memorials; as far as I know the parking lot is closed most of the time so you can't easily stroll in and check it out.

The map laying out the memorials is also like 10 years old and falling apart.

MBDeac08
01-27-2012, 03:50 PM
If you think thats the real reason, then i feel really sad for you my friend.

Well, you seem like a very enlightened person on the subject. Why don't you just say what you think the real reason is that they named it after him?

CarlSpackler88
01-27-2012, 03:59 PM
From what I've read, the Joel hosts around 100 events per year with WFU Basketball being the most profitable part of it. The Joel lost like $850k last year, but I'm not sure if that was just the Joel or the entire complex. Other than the fair and Ribfest, there isnt much use in the fairgrounds that I know of and there is a lot of upkeep. Now that there isnt a minor league hockey team playing in the Annex, I assume its a money pit as well.

All they need to do is hold a few more tractor pulls, rodeos, mud wrestling, arm wrestling, bare-knuckle brawls and gun shows and they're in the black. No brainer...

PhillyDeac
01-27-2012, 04:43 PM
The Buzz Out House

winner

childressfor3
01-27-2012, 05:14 PM
Well, you seem like a very enlightened person on the subject. Why don't you just say what you think the real reason is that they named it after him?

Race relations, nothing more, nothing less.

bym051d
01-27-2012, 05:43 PM
Race relations, nothing more, nothing less.

Regardless of the reason, they found someone deserving. No matter how troubled his life was when he returned, winning the MoH overshadows all the negative.

In case people aren't aware, this is from his MoH citation.


For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty. Sp6c. Joel demonstrated indomitable courage, determination, and professional skill when a numerically superior and well-concealed Viet Cong element launched a vicious attack which wounded or killed nearly every man in the lead squad of the company. After treating the men wounded by the initial burst of gunfire, he bravely moved forward to assist others who were wounded while proceeding to their objective. While moving from man to man, he was struck in the right leg by machine gun fire. Although painfully wounded his desire to aid his fellow soldiers transcended all personal feeling. He bandaged his own wound and self-administered morphine to deaden the pain enabling him to continue his dangerous undertaking. Through this period of time, he constantly shouted words of encouragement to all around him. Then, completely ignoring the warnings of others, and his pain, he continued his search for wounded, exposing himself to hostile fire; and, as bullets dug up the dirt around him, he held plasma bottles high while kneeling completely engrossed in his life saving mission. Then, after being struck a second time and with a bullet lodged in his thigh, he dragged himself over the battlefield and succeeded in treating 13 more men before his medical supplies ran out. Displaying resourcefulness, he saved the life of one man by placing a plastic bag over a severe chest wound to congeal the blood. As 1 of the platoons pursued the Viet Cong, an insurgent force in concealed positions opened fire on the platoon and wounded many more soldiers. With a new stock of medical supplies, Sp6c. Joel again shouted words of encouragement as he crawled through an intense hail of gunfire to the wounded men. After the 24 hour battle subsided and the Viet Cong dead numbered 410, snipers continued to harass the company. Throughout the long battle, Sp6c. Joel never lost sight of his mission as a medical aidman and continued to comfort and treat the wounded until his own evacuation was ordered. His meticulous attention to duty saved a large number of lives and his unselfish, daring example under most adverse conditions was an inspiration to all. Sp6c. Joel's profound concern for his fellow soldiers, at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty are in the highest traditions of the U.S. Army and reflect great credit upon himself and the Armed Forces of his country

I really don't care about the underlying reasons. The man is deserving of the honor.

MBDeac08
01-27-2012, 05:46 PM
Race relations, nothing more, nothing less.

You don't think the little fact that Joel won the MOH had anything, at all, to do with the selection to name the building after him? He is the only man from Winston-Salem to receive the award.

ETA: Even if it was done with the thought of smoothing race relations in WS, is that a bad thing? No. Joel deserved the award and he deserved to have a building named after him. Hell, the city threw a parade for Joel in 1967; make of that what you will, but I'm pretty sure the 1960's were not the friendliest time in regards to race relations.

Anyway, when the inevitable comes and Wake renames the building, I hope Joel is still honored in some way in a prominent part of the city.

dot com
01-27-2012, 05:54 PM
They'll probably fuck it up with something like Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial Historical Markers at Krispy Kreme Koliseum.

marquee moon
01-27-2012, 06:18 PM
Bvsp5UOcuw0

tsywake
01-27-2012, 06:24 PM
IIRC, there was a huge opposition from some very vocal local groups for his name being placed on the building back in 1989. Any old timers care to chime in?

tsywake
01-27-2012, 06:27 PM
Also, check out the official music video of 8th of November by Big and Rich. The prologue is a tribute to Lawrence Joel.

deac85
01-27-2012, 06:34 PM
City will need to come up with an alternative way to honor Mr. Joel, either on the grounds of the arena or somewhere else.

TheIshThatSaved WakeForest
01-27-2012, 06:38 PM
They'll probably fuck it up with something like Lawrence Joel Veterans Memorial Historical Markers at Krispy Kreme Koliseum.

If we changed it to the KKK, that might harm the aforementioned race relations.

MBDeac08
01-27-2012, 06:40 PM
Also, check out the official music video of 8th of November by Big and Rich. The prologue is a tribute to Lawrence Joel.

Did you know that already, or did you see it on Wikipedia......like I did.:)





(I'm guessing LJ wiki page has gotten a few hits this afternoon)

Ralph Medlin
01-27-2012, 06:51 PM
Oh my. Check the record book.


Exactly. Do your homework. Odom was the first successful coach in the Joel

DeaconDog
01-27-2012, 06:52 PM
Not sure how I never knew that about that Big n Rich song, pretty cool.

tsywake
01-27-2012, 06:52 PM
Did you know that already, or did you see it on Wikipedia......like I did.:)





(I'm guessing LJ wiki page has gotten a few hits this afternoon)

I remembered it from the thread on the scout boards when the song was originally released.

childressfor3
01-27-2012, 07:14 PM
I just want it renames something wake related. It will probably be corporate related when the time comes. Anyway just glad that the ball seems to be rolling on this thing. Never thought i would see it to be honest.

PhDeac
01-27-2012, 09:08 PM
I just want it renames something wake related. It will probably be corporate related when the time comes. Anyway just glad that the ball seems to be rolling on this thing. Never thought i would see it to be honest.

You seem to have something personal problem with Joel. It was a city arena and it shouldn't have just been named after a Wake person.

Kent
01-27-2012, 09:22 PM
I really don't care about the underlying reasons. The man is deserving of the honor.

+1. I didn't know Lawrence Joel from Billy Joel before today, but that guy was a legit hero. Hope they keep the name.

childressfor3
01-28-2012, 12:04 AM
Wow, geez guys calm down. Just thought i would let you guys know what i know on what i consider being a great and long overdue thing for wake in actually owning their own basketball arena. I dont think it should have been named after joel, just personal opinion though. Calm down. Ive had to many great memories in that place to hate it. PRACTICALLY grew up there.

childressfor3
01-28-2012, 12:04 AM
Wow, geez guys calm down. Just thought i would let you guys know what i know on what i consider being a great and long overdue thing for wake in actually owning their own basketball arena. I dont think it should have been named after joel, just personal opinion though. Calm down. Ive had to many great memories in that place to hate it. PRACTICALLY grew up there.

GoDeacs22
01-28-2012, 11:37 AM
I was just reminded about how long it took some of us to adjust/accept after Wake's announcement about name change of Groves to BB&T Field. 6 months after the announcement some were still claiming on the old board that it was really "BB&T Field at Groves Stadium." The name Groves hasn't even been mentioned by anyone since other than some old traditionalists like me that either still use the old name or occasionally forget.

DeaconDash
01-28-2012, 12:00 PM
Race relations, nothing more, nothing less.

If that was the reason to name it after Mr. Joel just imagine the stink it will cause if you decide to change the name. (That excessively obese gentleman with no neck from the NCAAP will be stirring things up.)

Just leave it "the Joel" and Deaconize it.

sailordeac
01-28-2012, 12:06 PM
If the Mr. Joel in question was in fact a lifelong Carolina fan, then we should change it. The city has many other avenues for honoring Mr. Joel and should use some of them.

Steels
01-28-2012, 01:09 PM
Just Veterans Memorial Coliseum would be easy compromise.

bym051d
01-28-2012, 01:15 PM
How about "The Joel" or the inevitable "The Buygold.com Joel?"

myDeaconmyhand
01-28-2012, 01:19 PM
I was just reminded about how long it took some of us to adjust/accept after Wake's announcement about name change of Groves to BB&T Field. 6 months after the announcement some were still claiming on the old board that it was really "BB&T Field at Groves Stadium." The name Groves hasn't even been mentioned by anyone since other than some old traditionalists like me that either still use the old name or occasionally forget.

I thought everyone still called it Groves.

Wakelaw2006
01-28-2012, 01:33 PM
I think it would be a PR nightmare to change the name from the Joel (it could be perceived as anti-military, as well the aforementioned race issues). I wouldn't be surprised to see the BB&T Joel Coliseum or BB&T Court at the Joel Coliseum, but I just don't see us taking the Joel name off the building completely.

ETA: I would be pretty disappointed in Wake if they took the Joel name off of the building - like I said earlier, hometown Medal of Honor recipient speaks for itself, Tar Heel fan, Duke fan, or otherwise.

WakeForestRanger
01-28-2012, 01:46 PM
Wellman is going to leave quite a legacy in terms of facilities when he retires.

MBDeac08
01-28-2012, 01:47 PM
If the Mr. Joel in question was in fact a lifelong Carolina fan, then we should change it. The city has many other avenues for honoring Mr. Joel and should use some of them.

When someone from my home town puts their life on the line to help others and receives the military's highest honor for it, I couldn't give a shit what team they pull for.

BeachBumDeac
01-28-2012, 01:51 PM
Regardless of the reason, they found someone deserving. No matter how troubled his life was when he returned, winning the MoH overshadows all the negative.

In case people aren't aware, this is from his MoH citation.



I really don't care about the underlying reasons. The man is deserving of the honor.

I'm curious if childressfor3 read this post.

PhDeac
01-28-2012, 02:06 PM
Crazy in 1989 that "race relations" had to be the reason to honor the city's only Medal of Honor recipient. Crazy in 2011 that childressfor3 still sees this as a bad thing.

Turd Ferguson
01-28-2012, 03:28 PM
We could always just rename it the Wake Forest Basketball Memorial Coliseum.

VaDeac
01-28-2012, 03:33 PM
We could always just rename it the Wake Forest Basketball Memorial Coliseum.

Heh heh. Posrep.

Childress, is the city throwing in some buyout cash as part of the deal?

MBDeac08
01-28-2012, 03:47 PM
Crazy in 1989 that "race relations" had to be the reason to honor the city's only Medal of Honor recipient. Crazy in 2011 that childressfor3 still sees this as a bad thing.

Exactly. Like I posted earlier, the city honored him in a parade in 1967. If there were other MOH recipients from WS and none of them were honored, there might be something to the race claims. But there are no other recipients, Joel is the only one.

Caturday
01-28-2012, 08:56 PM
Lawrence Joel sounds like the ultimate badass. I'm sure we could get an accounting firm to buy the naming rights. Or give the naming rights to a bulge bracket firm and get some good Wall Street pub going for job seekers.

JKW385
01-28-2012, 09:30 PM
Lawrence Joel sounds like the ultimate badass. I'm sure we could get an accounting firm to buy the naming rights. Or give the naming rights to a bulge bracket firm and get some good Wall Street pub going for job seekers.

Naming rights bullshit aside, any word on renovations in the works for the building? It is still a good facility but it's pushing it's 25th birthday. Off the top of my head, I'd think that it is probably one of the older facility in the conference without a major facelift. Clemson and GT have both done work to their respective gyms recently. MD, State and UVA all have newer arenas. Not sure about FSU, Miami, or BC. I don't think we can compete with the Dean Dome or Cameron Indoor, so I don't really count those.

89DeaconMike
01-28-2012, 09:42 PM
http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-project.cfm

http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-priorities-and-phases.cfm?page=26

dot com
01-28-2012, 09:58 PM
Gifts to the Basketball Project will help restore Wake Forest’s position among the nation’s elite basketball programs.

We trying to fund a buyout?

Buttermaker
01-28-2012, 10:06 PM
Naming rights bullshit aside, any word on renovations in the works for the building? It is still a good facility but it's pushing it's 25th birthday. Off the top of my head, I'd think that it is probably one of the older facility in the conference without a major facelift. Clemson and GT have both done work to their respective gyms recently. MD, State and UVA all have newer arenas. Not sure about FSU, Miami, or BC. I don't think we can compete with the Dean Dome or Cameron Indoor, so I don't really count those.

Miami's arena is less than 10 years old, more like 5-6 I think.

KeEpEr
01-28-2012, 10:11 PM
Miami's arena is less than 10 years old, more like 5-6 I think.

Goats under Doherty opened it. 2003 I think.

childressfor3
01-28-2012, 11:14 PM
We could always just rename it the Wake Forest Basketball Memorial Coliseum.

yes.

TheReff
01-29-2012, 12:09 AM
Naming rights bullshit aside, any word on renovations in the works for the building? It is still a good facility but it's pushing it's 25th birthday. Off the top of my head, I'd think that it is probably one of the older facility in the conference without a major facelift. Clemson and GT have both done work to their respective gyms recently. MD, State and UVA all have newer arenas. Not sure about FSU, Miami, or BC. I don't think we can compete with the Dean Dome or Cameron Indoor, so I don't really count those.

It has undergone continual renovations to keep it up to date over the years. It is still a great building.

The Stig
01-29-2012, 12:16 AM
http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-project.cfm

http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-priorities-and-phases.cfm?page=26


We trying to fund a buyout?

Hopefully it's a way to tell quality coaches "We're planning and following through on a massive investment into the program. You'd love to coach here!"

tsywake
01-29-2012, 08:38 AM
We could always just rename it the Wake Forest Basketball Memorial Coliseum.

Wasn't the old building pre Joel just called Memorial Coliseum? That was before my time.

MBDeac08
01-29-2012, 09:41 AM
Wasn't the old building pre Joel just called Memorial Coliseum? That was before my time.

Correct.

Les Grossman
01-29-2012, 10:11 AM
http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-project.cfm

http://www.deaconclub.com/basketball-priorities-and-phases.cfm?page=26


I'd much rather they spend the money changing the seating structure to make the stadium more intimidating and louder than putting up some banners.

Of course, this concept is based on the premise of having more than 3,000 fans show up to the game.