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Ongoing NC GOP debacle thread

I would argue that Obamacare is many steps in the wrong direction for health care, and that this is at least in the right direction for the students of those schools being affected. But I digress.
Again, is this better or worse than what the students of the 5 worst schools in the state will otherwise get under the status quo?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I would argue that Obamacare is many steps in the wrong direction for health care, and that this is at least in the right direction for the students of those schools being affected. But I digress.
Again, is this better or worse than what the students of the 5 worst schools in the state will otherwise get under the status quo?
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The who? Either you care about the Omni-solution of Teacher Pay or you hate public education. All this talk of innovation and substantive reform is just a thinly-veiled attempt to conceal Pub disdain for teachers (and is probably racist, although I'm not sure how). Try to keep up.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I would argue that Obamacare is many steps in the wrong direction for health care, and that this is at least in the right direction for the students of those schools being affected. But I digress.
Again, is this better or worse than what the students of the 5 worst schools in the state will otherwise get under the status quo?
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I don't know. Charters aren't some simple quick fix. They don't have a success rate any higher than public schools.
 
North Carolina is heading for a massive teacher shortage in a few years because it treats teachers like crap with low pay, no resources, and outright villification by the leaders of our state. Terminating the teaching fellows program was a horrible idea, and the overall demonization of the teaching profession by the folks in Raleigh has led to almost a 1/3 decline in the number of students in teacher training programs, while our best teachers are being actively recruited away by other states.

Turning around a handful of schools with accountable charters is a good idea, but (assuming they succeed) that success is going to be hard to replicate across the state if there aren't any teachers available to do the work.
 
PhDeac said:
I don't know. Charters aren't some simple quick fix. They don't have a success rate any higher than public schools.
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But we do know that we are currently getting shit at those schools. So, in this instance, I'll take the unknown over the known. There is absolutely nothing to lose. I'd rather give those kids at least a chance that it works as opposed to what they have now.
 
So these schools get an order to close or become charters, the charter can fire every employee in the building and bring in who they want, and there are no details on how they will evaluate them?

Yeah, that's not shady at all.
 
They are the worst performing schools in the state. Why shouldn't they all be fired? Not that they will all be, but the burden should be on them to show why they shouldn't be. If you worked for a company that had several thousand divisions, and yours consistently ranked DFL, would you not expect to be fired? The fact that you are questioning this possibility shows just how ridiculous the system currently is.
 
Deadbolt said:
So these schools get an order to close or become charters, the charter can fire every employee in the building and bring in who they want, and there are no details on how they will evaluate them?

Yeah, that's not shady at all.
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That plan calls for the state Board of Education to hire an achievement school district superintendent, who will choose five elementary schools from a list based on 2015 data being released this fall. They must be among the 25 lowest-performing elementary schools and have failed to meet academic growth goals for the two prior years.

The newly hired official would be charged with choosing a sampling of urban and rural schools from around the state, with no more than one per school district. After conferring with local officials and holding a public hearing, that official would recommend five by Nov. 15, with a state Board of Education decision due Jan. 15.

By Feb. 15, the board would choose charter operators with “a record of results” or “a credible and specific plan” for improving low-performing schools. By the end of February, local districts would have to decide whether to close the targeted schools or transfer them to a charter operator.

The charter operator would be responsible for staffing the schools, with no requirement to keep existing teachers and administrators. The school board would remain responsible for the building and providing transportation.

Charter operators would get a five-year contract, with intensive monitoring to see whether they’re making a difference for the students. Lack of progress could lead to early termination of the agreement.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article30508572.html#storylink=cpy
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The article is short on detail, but the bolded part certainly indicates that there will be a mechanism for enforcement. Certainly there's a lot more accountability here than the voucher-to-fundamentalist-Christian-academy pipeline. And I think 2&2s point is accurate - these are to be essentially the 5 worst elementary schools in the whole state. There's probably nowhere to go but up.

Charter schools are not a silver bullet and nothing is guaranteed. But there's also nothing wrong with trying something new on such a limited basis with careful observation and accountability. If that's the case here, I'd support this bill. Doesn't mean that I agree with much of anything else the general assembly is doing with regard to education, but even a blind pig can find an acorn from time to time.
 
Are they the worst schools or do they have the worst students?
 
As long as these charter schools pay their teachers the state wage, teach evolution, sex ed., and provide adequate transportation and lunch for the students then I'm OK with it.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I thought we weren't allowed to blame the students. Isn't virtually everyone able to be educated in the right environment?
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Right. Which is why student achievement should be measured, not school achievement.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I thought we weren't allowed to blame the students. Isn't virtually everyone able to be educated in the right environment?
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"Able to be educated"? Yes.
Able to pass state mandated performance evaluations at the same rate as the average children their own age? No. That's the reality that State governments can't accept. The effects of poverty on educational development are well documented. Its a harsh truth, but we should stop blaming teachers for having poor students.
 
PhDeac said:
I don't know. Charters aren't some simple quick fix. They don't have a success rate any higher than public schools.
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I agree with your first sentence. After that, you lost some factual steam.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
"Able to be educated"? Yes.
Able to pass state mandated performance evaluations at the same rate as the average children their own age? No. That's the reality that State governments can't accept. The effects of poverty on educational development are well documented. Its a harsh truth, but we should stop blaming teachers for having poor students.
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Jesus Christ. So we can't blame teachers for having poor students, yet we can't blame the students either. And of course we can't blame the parents, because their situation is not their fault. So everyone just looks to Raleigh to fix all of their problems from hundreds of miles away. And we can't turn over schools to the local systems, because then it is the uneducated leading the uneducated. And when Raleigh does try to propose a solution (such as here), that solution isn't good enough, so why bother? No wonder nothing ever gets fixed.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Jesus Christ. So we can't blame teachers for having poor students, yet we can't blame the students either. And of course we can't blame the parents, because their situation is not their fault. So everyone just looks to Raleigh to fix all of their problems from hundreds of miles away. And we can't turn over schools to the local systems, because then it is the uneducated leading the uneducated. And when Raleigh does try to propose a solution (such as here), that solution isn't good enough, so why bother? No wonder nothing ever gets fixed.
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Well, maybe blaming and firing people based on impersonal achievement standards isn't the simple solution that you want it to be.
 
They take all these steps to harm public education, complain when it sucks, shift public money to private campaign donors in the name of "school choice," and let the private/charter schools play by a completely different set of rules/standards.

3 steps to "fixing" education

1. Integration

Schools need diverse student bodies representing all economic, social, and ethnic backgrounds. In the same way, funding for schools should be normalized across districts and across schools within districts. Compare Whitaker Elementary and Bolton Elementary in Forsyth County. Walk each school building and tell me which is the more conducive to learning.

2. Value teachers

Immediately change the political rhetoric (trust your professional employees instead of constantly attacking them), increase pay, appropriately dedicate planning time, provide meaningful professional development

3. Parent/Community involvement

Schools are expected to not only educate, but feed, parent, and address psychological issues. If a school can't overcome the hunger, abandonment, neglect, violence, drug use, abuse, abject poverty, etc. that a child faces at home and educate that child, then the school is considered a failure. The A-F grading system implemented in NC reflects this as nearly all the failing schools have poor student populations.

Bonus: High schools should be more like a community college and less like a liberal arts school
 
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