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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

I was reading Zach Lowe's article on Brad Stevens and the Celtics' toughness and came across this:

In Boston's seventh game of the season, Shane Larkin failed to pursue a loose ball along the left sideline. Stevens removed Larkin at the next stoppage. He didn't play again until garbage time. "I learned right away," Larkin said. "If you don't get a 50-50 ball, you are coming out."

This is Exhibit 1a why many find Danny Manning's "coaching" so frustrating and why he has no chance of fielding a consistent NCAA team without multiple McDonald's All-Americans which he has shown incapable of recruiting. There is little to no accountability for player's mistakes during the game.

When Crawford decides to go launch an ill-advised 3 pointer early in the clock, Manning just stands there staring with his arms crossed. Fucking yank him from the game immediately and tell him if he does it again, he won't be playing. And do it early in the season so bad habits are nipped and good habits take their place. The same goes for all players from star player on down to walk-ons and applies to all stupid decisions and lack of hustle plays. Instead, we get the same old tired results down the stretch of close games because our "coach" blankly stares at the action and does nothing to hold players accountable. How many close games this past season were lost on some iteration of Crawford hero-ball?

Tony Bennett sure holds his players accountable. You take an ill-advised shot early in the clock? You're in the doghouse. You don't hustle on defense or scrap for a loose ball. You're coming out. The players know that and a standard is set. Joe Harris graduates, no problem. Malcom Brogdon finishes his eligibility? Another 1 seed in the tourney. Consistent success.

Instead we've got Danny "Blank Stare" Manning over here starting Terrance Thompson every game while Keyshawn Woods is coming off the bench and other younger players with potential are languishing as they watch lazy and stupid plays go unpunished. Are you really surprised this culture has led to a mass exodus of players transferring and declaring early to get out of this shit show?

It's long been past due to stop giving Manning the benefit of the doubt. #manningthefuckout
 
Section2mankini said:
I was reading Zach Lowe's article on Brad Stevens and the Celtics' toughness and came across this:

In Boston's seventh game of the season, Shane Larkin failed to pursue a loose ball along the left sideline. Stevens removed Larkin at the next stoppage. He didn't play again until garbage time. "I learned right away," Larkin said. "If you don't get a 50-50 ball, you are coming out."

This is Exhibit 1a why many find Danny Manning's "coaching" so frustrating and why he has no chance of fielding a consistent NCAA team without multiple McDonald's All-Americans which he has shown incapable of recruiting. There is little to no accountability for player's mistakes during the game.

When Crawford decides to go launch an ill-advised 3 pointer early in the clock, Manning just stands there staring with his arms crossed. Fucking yank him from the game immediately and tell him if he does it again, he won't be playing. And do it early in the season so bad habits are nipped and good habits take their place. The same goes for all players from star player on down to walk-ons and applies to all stupid decisions and lack of hustle plays. Instead, we get the same old tired results down the stretch of close games because our "coach" blankly stares at the action and does nothing to hold players accountable. How many close games this past season were lost on some iteration of Crawford hero-ball?

Tony Bennett sure holds his players accountable. You take an ill-advised shot early in the clock? You're in the doghouse. You don't hustle on defense or scrap for a loose ball. You're coming out. The players know that and a standard is set. Joe Harris graduates, no problem. Malcom Brogdon finishes his eligibility? Another 1 seed in the tourney. Consistent success.

Instead we've got Danny "Blank Stare" Manning over here starting Terrance Thompson every game while Keyshawn Woods is coming off the bench and other younger players with potential are languishing as they watch lazy and stupid plays go unpunished. Are you really surprised this culture has led to a mass exodus of players transferring and declaring early to get out of this shit show?

It's long been past due to stop giving Manning the benefit of the doubt. #manningthefuckout
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Perhaps, but you also notice that wasn't Kyrie Irving they interviewed...that was the 4th or 5th guy off the bench. It would be the equivalent of Manning benching Melo for lack of hustle. It is easy to make examples of your bench players. A good bit more difficult to do for your junior starting PG who is already dealing with confidence and expectation issues. I am with you, that a coach needs to hold his players accountable, but it is not always cut and dry. I think fans tend to glamorize this trait with selective memory either towards or against coaches they favor or disfavor. Manning has been pretty tough at times on our players. Circumstantially you look at Woods, Moore, and Mitchell's departure. They aren't leaving because Manning is trying hard to be their friend and letting them do whatever the heck they want on the court.

Your point is in contradiction with your comments about T.T. That guy pretty much started simply because of effort and experience. Make up your mind what point you are trying to make. Is Manning coddling his talent? Or is stubbornly playing the guys who give the best effort. Ideally coaches find a middle ground (and Stevens DEFINITELY knows how to tiptoe this line) that balances relationships with players and accountability to a set of fundamentals that are non-negotiable. There is no doubt that Manning must do better finding the proper balance. We have had too many transfers and we have fundamental lapses too often.
 
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Wrangor is still joining our alums somehow trying to figure out a way to defend those in place. This must be the low point in WF basketball history. We are not trying to win. There is absolutely 0 way to defend not making a coaching change here in 2018.

Our alums and board of trustees are complicit. No one has a pulse. Wake Forest basketball is over. And no one has stepped up to revive it.
 
The whole sport may be dying. Wake Forest just wants to be ahead of the curve for once.
 
donaldross said:
Wrangor is still joining our alums somehow trying to figure out a way to defend those in place. This must be the low point in WF basketball history. We are not trying to win. There is absolutely 0 way to defend not making a coaching change here in 2018.

Our alums and board of trustees are complicit. No one has a pulse. Wake Forest basketball is over. And no one has stepped up to revive it.
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The lowest point was directly before Danny was hired.
 
donaldross said:
Wrangor is still joining our alums somehow trying to figure out a way to defend those in place. This must be the low point in WF basketball history. We are not trying to win. There is absolutely 0 way to defend not making a coaching change here in 2018.

Our alums and board of trustees are complicit. No one has a pulse. Wake Forest basketball is over. And no one has stepped up to revive it.
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Bullshit. Such - I'm gonna go with udder - bullshit.

First, I was at Wake when Cal Boyd was our PG okay? Helmet Kohl was our center. I think the only game we won in conference in two years ended up being a game that Charles Shackleford threw for cash, thus allowing Helmet Kohl his career game - of like 13 points. Just to be clear, Shack was trying to throw the game and Helmet still only scored like 13 pts.

That was low. So don't throw out udder-bs using absolutes like "ever" and "0". We have a 5star swingman coming in, two potential NBA players, 4star kids coming back in Brown and Sarr.

I feel like I need to start some sort of #FuckThisPussyPoster movement. Who's with me?
 
yeah, Helmut Kohl was Chancellor of Germany; pretty sure he spoke at WF back in the day

Kohl was 6'4" so he could have hooped, not ACC center material though, even on a bad team
 
Yes, I did the Helmut schtick as a joke. I use him, Boutros Boutros Ghali and Golda Meier a lot as stand ins for people whose names I can't quite remember. Like, for example, the defensive minded SF that played for the Clippers last year and Houston this year and keeps popping out his shoulder is Boutros Boutros Ghali. Whatever downhill skier whose name I cannot remember is Golda Meier. And the athletic stiff (but super nice) who played c for us in the 80s was Helmut Kohl.

And by the way, Kitley was a step UP from the 7-footer who played C for Wake in 84. That kid would develop a red rash on his face after about two trips up and down the court and had to sit to catch his breath. cannot remember his name but I am going to call him Igor StopPlayingorDieOvich.
 
I’m not saying this is the worst basketball team in WF history. What I’m saying is that it is the low point because no one cares enough to try and improve it. We are paying our AD (highly unqualified to being with) hundreds of thousands of dollars to let basketball rot. And so few alums are willing to pick up the phone and get in peoples faces to fix it. Manning isn’t the answer. Even his own players know it. And we are just sitting there allowing Manning and Wellman to collect our money. This is the low point. Because our alums do not care enough to try and improve the program.

Ben Sutton had it right when he said his group got together because they didn’t want WF football to keep sucking. No one has done that for basketball. Sucking is a choice. And our alums have chosen it.
 
Basketball doesn’t need a bunch of money. There are plenty of good coaches who could take the money we have invested now and win.
 
PhDeac said:
Basketball doesn’t need a bunch of money. There are plenty of good coaches who could take the money we have invested now and win.
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You know what’s coming from me. Awful hard getting a quality coach (or recruit) into our morgue of a stadium.
 
donaldross said:
I’m not saying this is the worst basketball team in WF history. What I’m saying is that it is the low point because no one cares enough to try and improve it. We are paying our AD (highly unqualified to being with) hundreds of thousands of dollars to let basketball rot. And so few alums are willing to pick up the phone and get in peoples faces to fix it. Manning isn’t the answer. Even his own players know it. And we are just sitting there allowing Manning and Wellman to collect our money. This is the low point. Because our alums do not care enough to try and improve the program.

Ben Sutton had it right when he said his group got together because they didn’t want WF football to keep sucking. No one has done that for basketball. Sucking is a choice. And our alums have chosen it.
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Or they are just smarter than you and understand a better strategy to fixing the basketball program. You can blow it up and start over - like you want - one year after a good year, and see who you get as coach, probably not your 1st or 2nd choice. More like your 5th choice. Or, you could be smarter about it and realize that you are going to get a better candidate in a different circumstance. Of course there are risks to that as well, namely, we have a pretty good year next year, or just good enough to be in a similar spot - firing a coach at the wrong time usually results in a bad hire.
 
Why would we get a better candidate in 10 months? Even your post assumed Manning becomes a better coach.
 
PhDeac said:
Why would we get a better candidate in 10 months? Even your post assumed Manning becomes a better coach.
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Good point. We likely missed our window to hire a new coach with the program in better shape than when BZ left.
 
The only way we become a more attractive program in a year is if Manning does well enough that the powers that be let him keep his job. If we are still bad or worse, the job is less attractive especially if Hoard goes pro.

We could have brought in a new person to coach a program with three seniors and top 30 freshman and sophomore.
 
PhDeac said:
The only way we become a more attractive program in a year is if Manning does well enough that the powers that be let him keep his job. If we are still bad or worse, the job is less attractive especially if Hoard goes pro.

We could have brought in a new person to coach a program with three seniors and top 30 freshman and sophomore.
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And possibly without so many defections.
 
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