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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

College graduates are better off that people who didn’t graduate college. And they’re saddled with a ton of debt. People who haven’t completed a degree aren’t much better off and are still saddled with a ton of debt.
 
WFFaithful said:
One of the problems is that people were sold a narrative of college graduates being better off. The people bought the narrative and accumulated large sums of debt.
The economy has left a lot of those graduates struggling since 2008.
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Those with a college degree still earn a lot more than those without. On average, they earn about $1 million more over their lifetime than those without a college degree.
 
Something that isn’t being mentioned in this discussion is that all this student debt forgiveness debate is regarding the government forgiving federal student debt that’s in good standing - none of its going to privately held student debt or to debt that is currently in forbearance, so the cost of this potential policy is much lower than everyone thinks it is, considering the vast majority of current student debt in America is currently in forbearance and not eligible for forgiveness.

I do want to say that I agree that any student debt relief package should necessarily involve student financial aid reform, because otherwise this would just be a subsidy for college costs that potentially exacerbates the problem.
 
PhDeac said:
College graduates are better off that people who didn’t graduate college. And they’re saddled with a ton of debt. People who haven’t completed a degree aren’t much better off and are still saddled with a ton of debt.
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Agreed. But even if that debt is subtracted from their earnings, the graduates will make much more than non-graduates. So maybe the program should focus on those that didn't graduate? If it has been more than 8 years since starting college and they didn't graduate, then they can apply for loan forgiveness?
 
Rafi said:
Those with a college degree still earn a lot more than those without. On average, they earn about $1 million more over their lifetime than those without a college degree.
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All that commonly cited data about the financial benefit of college includes *every* tax payer with a college degree, and it includes every advanced degree. The financial advantage of a medical doctorate over a lifetime for a 70 year old retired doctor is much different than the benefit of a bachelors degree for a 45 year old who owes more money *now* than they did with they graduated.
 
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Rafi said:
Those with a college degree still earn a lot more than those without. On average, they earn about $1 million more over their lifetime than those without a college degree.
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I would think the scope of that statistic is too wide. There are probably plenty of college graduates who pursue careers that are socially beneficial but aren't particularly well-paying like social work and education.
 
TenaciousKory said:
I would think the scope of that statistic is too wide. There are probably plenty of college graduates who pursue careers that are socially beneficial but aren't particularly well-paying like social work and education.
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From what I read, the benefit was seen for all 90 majors that were reviewed, obviously with some majors having more benefit than others (but every major made more than non-college grads).
 
The biggest beneficiaries of canceling college debt are the people that did not graduate. People that took two or three semesters of classes paid $20k before they realized the college is not for them. These tend to be people who are first generation college students that don’t understand what they are getting into and end up without a degree and a large bill.

I agree with the “going forward” problem. How do we stop this from being a problem again in 10 years. Probably the best way is to make community college free. That would have so many positive ripple effect on secondary education.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
$400k in student debt is ridiculous - what the fuck happened there?
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I hear numbers like this all the time from medical students. $50,000 per year for 8 years. It blows my mind, but I hear it frequently.
 
birdman said:
The biggest beneficiaries of canceling college debt are the people that did not graduate. People that took two or three semesters of classes paid $20k before they realized the college is not for them. These tend to be people who are first generation college students that don’t understand what they are getting into and end up without a degree and a large bill.

I agree with the “going forward” problem. How do we stop this from being a problem again in 10 years. Probably the best way is to make community college free. That would have so many positive ripple effect on secondary education.
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I agree with all of this. So maybe focus the program on non-graduates? And free community college is a great idea, though I'm not certain it will address the college debt issue much.
 
Free community college, hmmmm I wonder if that was in a recent bill that got stripped away and then not even voted on.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
Free community college, hmmmm I wonder if that was in a recent bill that got stripped away and then not even voted on.
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Yeah but I heard that guy voted for some Biden judges though and Rahm Emanuel as Ambassador to Japan, so we got that going for us, which is nice.
 
Rafi said:
From what I read, the benefit was seen for all 90 majors that were reviewed, obviously with some majors having more benefit than others (but every major made more than non-college grads).
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I'm not contesting that the benefit exists, just that a single average is an awful way to evaluate it.
 
Rafi said:
I agree with all of this. So maybe focus the program on non-graduates? And free community college is a great idea, though I'm not certain it will address the college debt issue much.
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I think that is why the focus is on canceling the first $50k. It will capture most of the people that didn’t get a degree and not set up a cumbersome application process and bureaucracy.

Free community college will allow those first gen people to test the college waters without incurring piles of debt and will also force other colleges and universities, competing for those students, to lower their costs to compete. So future debt loads will be much lower.
 
TenaciousKory said:
I'm not contesting that the benefit exists, just that a single average is an awful way to evaluate it.
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Sure, I agree. But I the benefit does seem universal (though to differing degrees) and it also appears that the higher debt is more often in those with graduate degrees, who will eventually be at the top end of the wage range.
 
birdman said:
I think that is why the focus is on canceling the first $50k. It will capture most of the people that didn’t get a degree and not set up a cumbersome application process and bureaucracy.

Free community college will allow those first gen people to test the college waters without incurring piles of debt and will also force other colleges and universities, competing for those students, to lower their costs to compete. So future debt loads will be much lower.
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But aren't most community colleges about $1000 per semester? I don't think that's where the loans are going.
 
Rafi said:
Sure, I agree. But I the benefit does seem universal (though to differing degrees) and it also appears that the higher debt is more often in those with graduate degrees, who will eventually be at the top end of the wage range.
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this is a really important caveat, imo. it's complex!
 
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