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Doral Moore Hiring an Agent, Entering NBA Draft

PhDeac said:
What if Moore’s long term goal was to become a PE teacher but he just happened to earn a scholarship to play ball at Wake?
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He's in line to accomplish his goal by age 28.
 
jaybone said:
I am going to eat shit on this thread for a bit, but Wellman is no dummy. Now, that doesn't prevent him for making the wrong hire (bzd), the wrong decision in a moment of crisis/tragedy (Dino), but we do not know who turned us down prior to Manning (except for RJ).

The thing a lot of posters on here can afford to ignore is timing and perception of the program. We all want instant gratification. I love bread. I want to eat it whenever I see it. I want to drink it in liquid form from lunch to late. I, like I assume a lot of you, have learned to control that want in order to stay relatively fit and healthy.

You want a good next coach? You give Manning another year. You want another 5-year stretch of middling results, fire him 6 weeks ago. The thing Bzd did to our program was take the magnetism out of the program. It is a hard sell these days to get a kid to consider Wake, despite CP3. Bzd did that. Wellman did that via Bzd. Manning has had to make it a place to desire. He had to do that with style pf play. And his narrative. Unfortunately, it is a job that seems to reward the charismatic guy at the end of the bar who tells just fucking awesome stories. The Billy Donovans, the Rick Pitinos. Some of those guys are also great coaches. Some are not. Manning is most definitely NOT in the charismatic part of the family tree. Which makes him have to work extra hard. He needs an assistant with some flaws, though morally okay to good, who can fill that role. Not sure if we have that guy on staff right now, but I would assume Jones comes the closest.

Anywho - we are adding a consensus 5-star player next year who really really wants to be one-and-done. If he and Craw and 4 or 5 others lead us to 18-20 wins and an NCAA birth, well that will be fun and Manning will have earned himself another year and some momentum - the type of momentum we SEEM to have squandered after John Collins sophomore year happened (but did it? Collins begat Hoard IMO). I do think that needs to parlay into a 2019 signing that hasn't yet happened. Which will tough. But if we win 14 games or 16 games, Hoard leaves and we make no post season, I think Wellman will fire Manning with a better chance at hiring the next great coach. Even then, to be perfectly blunt, it won't be an ideal situation. Not unless Coach K decides to hang up the grecian formula and/or Roy Williams takes his god dern act into retirement opening an opportunity at Wake for a young coach to think he might be able to turn Wake into the next Duke ...

So to summarize. Cutting the Manning cord after Year 4 a year removed from the John Collins year would have resulted in our 3rd or 4th choice hire. While there are no guarantees that next year would be any better, I think most coaches considering Wake would be on board with a firing after two shitty years in a row. Despite starting this post with a pro-Wellman nod, the man in the way of the NEXT great Wake coaching hire is Wellman himself. Not because he is an idiot, but because if I am a hot young coach, I see an old man at AD that is going to be gone in 5 years or less. Where does that leave me? If Wellman DOES fire Manning at the end of next year, I hope he has the good sense to step down himself. I doubt he will, but that would be the best result as far as a new coach is concerned.

I have learned from being a Spurs fan, to enjoy the ride. Most great seasons will not result in a Final 4. That doesn't make the year NOT fun. This past year was not fun. Manning cannot afford a 2nd unfun year in a row or he is gone.
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Part of me wants to argue against this stance. If it was the right time to let Dino go, how can we justify giving Manning one more season. It's pretty clear that Manning doesn't posses all the tools required to be a great, or even good, ACC coach, so why not cut bait now...

But another part of me knows that the only and best argument for keeping Manning is that Wellman is still in charge and until he is not it doesn't really matter whether we replace Manning now or after next season.
 
I’m no expert, but I believe foreign-based players are double taxed unless they are in the US less than a month during a calendar year. ‘‘Twas the case when I lived abroad in 2008/9, at least.
 
birdman said:
But another part of me knows that the only and best argument for keeping Manning is that Wellman is still in charge and until he is not it doesn't really matter whether we replace Manning now or after next season.
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Wellman is likely to be in charge at the end of next season too.

I think it's unlikely that Wellman would be anything but a figurehead in a new basketball coaching search at this point. The folks who will have to fund the buyout of his recent Manning extension aren't dumb people.
 
RacerDeac said:
Wellman is likely to be in charge at the end of next season too.

I think it's unlikely that Wellman would be anything but a figurehead in a new basketball coaching search at this point. The folks who will have to fund the buyout of his recent Manning extension aren't dumb people.
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#DRbatsignal #evrybodydumbxceptDR
 
RacerDeac said:
Getting a degree can be done later and over time. You don't get back your youth, and his ability to earn money as a basketball player depends on it.
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I've still never seen a plausible counter-argument to this statement.
 
CantStandYa said:
I've still never seen a plausible counter-argument to this statement.
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Me neither and if anybody wants to come out and earn an income in any industry, be it music as a rocker or country music singer, Apple star employee with the newest, latest & greatest technology for them to institute and they hire you away from college early, or basketball player who goes as a freshman or sophomore, do it if it feels right. We have had great success with ours who came out early so far [Rodney Rogers as a junior to CP3, Teague, Aminu, Collins & Johnson as sophs. And hopefully Greek was successful this season!]. But Crawford & Moore face long long odds right now. Just looking at the list of early entries into the NBA, WOW!

Of the Top 100 prospects, 43 are "in" the draft. 36 more of the Top 100 are "testing" the waters. Now outside the Top 100 there are another 22 who are "in", Like Moore and another 98 "testing" the waters like Crawford. And let's not forget the Top 100 seniors who are all coming out, as there are 17 of them of which includes the likes of Grayson Allen, Bonzie Colson, Theo Pinson & Isaac Haas. They all could get drafted.
 
I really do wish Doral the best of luck in his future endeavors ... However, I do not understand even a little bit why someone would commit to signing with an agent before he had been through at least some portion of the process. Professional basketball overseas will be there for him whenever he chooses to go that route. If the NBA is truly the dream, why not be as close to sure as possible that they want you as much as you want them. That part continues to confuse me.
 
MrBojangles said:
I really do wish Doral the best of luck in his future endeavors ... However, I do not understand even a little bit why someone would commit to signing with an agent before he had been through at least some portion of the process. Professional basketball overseas will be there for him whenever he chooses to go that route. If the NBA is truly the dream, why not be as close to sure as possible that they want you as much as you want them. That part continues to confuse me.
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He did go through some of the process. He declared several weeks before signing an agent. He wasn't just twiddling his thumbs.
 
RacerDeac said:
Getting a degree can be done later and over time. You don't get back your youth, and his ability to earn money as a basketball player depends on it.
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Doral apparently wants to be in the NBA. Part of the discussion has been about multiple unbiased observers saying he is not likely to be drafted in 2018. That will put a major bump on his road to the NBA. The most likely scenario is playing overseas.

If he is to finish his degree "later and over time" he has made that much harder by not finishing this year at Wake. He apparently left school, and will therefore have "incomplete" at best for his semester grades. Other schools, not just Wake may have a problem with that on his record. Second, he will need to pay for his future education. Up until now, his basketball talent paid his tuition etc. That won't happen in the future.

If he was having trouble managing basketball and studying at the same time at Wake, it will be that much harder to mange those two things if he is playing pro ball somewhere and he doesn't have the academic support system available to athletes.

If he waits to complete his bachelor's degree until after he finishes whatever pro career he manages to have, either he will have to have saved enough to pay for college and his living expenses or he will need to be working some job he can get without a college degree to pay for school and living expenses. He would then have to juggle the demands of a "nine-to-five" job with the demands of school. He again will not have the academic support system that is available to him as a scholarship athlete at Wake. Not to say he can't do it, just that again, it is harder to do.

Doral is unlikely to be signing a multimillion dollar contract with an NBA team or European team, unlike the other players who have left Wake early.

Instead of going to the basketball equivalent of Apple, he is likely to end up at someplace like the basketball equivalent of CARNET.
 
Deaconblue said:
Doral apparently wants to be in the NBA. Part of the discussion has been about multiple unbiased observers saying he is not likely to be drafted in 2018. That will put a major bump on his road to the NBA. The most likely scenario is playing overseas.
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What evidence is there that another year will change his chances at the NBA? How much better are his chances after 1 year of played basketball as a full time job vs another year in school? How much insight do you have into what he has learned and been told during this process of declaring? How do you know that he desperately wants to be in the NBA and isn't eyeing a career overseas based on what he's learned since declaring?

So much speculation and "I know better than Doral and his family" from the "Doral should stay" crowd. Strangely enough, many of them are the same folks heavily invested in the idea that Manning needs more time and who have declared that they think success is coming this year...
 
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RacerDeac said:
What evidence is there that another year will change his chances? How much insight do you have into what he has learned and been told during this process of declaring? How do you know that he desperately wants to be in the NBA and isn't eyeing a career overseas? So much speculation from the "Doral should stay" crowd. Strangely enough, many of them are the same folks invested in the idea that Manning needs more time and who have declared that they think success is coming this year...
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Personally, if I was in his shoes I would have decided to stay if for nothing else other than next year's draft class almost assuredly being weaker and increasing my chances of a second round selection (plus, on the surface it seems Doral would be one of the best bigs in the ACC probably behind Elijah Thomas and maybe 1-2 others I can't think of atm). He may really want to play overseas, which would be a little strange for someone who hasn't finished their eligibility in college but none of us know that. Either way, getting his professional career started now will net him more money (assuming he didn't play his way into the draft next year).

Literally everything anyone is saying whether it's arguing he should stay or go is speculation considering none of us know anything. You're just not asking these questions to the other side of argument.
 
Doral listed here as #59 prospect available: http://nbadraftnews.com/2018-nba-draft-big-board/

While being picked anywhere from #55-60 may seem like a victory, justifying a decision to leave, Doral would be better served not being picked then being a late 2nd. By not being picked and remaining a preferred free-agent signing you can choose the situation/team that offers the best opportunity to succeed over being stuck at say, #59 and going to a team that is a bad fit.

That being said, he is still not listed on any reputable mock drafts. Likely headed to the G-league for 35k.
 
RacerDeac said:
What evidence is there that another year will change his chances? How much insight do you have into what he has learned and been told during this process of declaring? How do you know that he desperately wants to be in the NBA and isn't eyeing a career overseas? So much speculation from the "Doral should stay" crowd. Strangely enough, many of them are the same folks invested in the idea that Manning needs more time and who have declared that they think success is coming this year...
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When Collins declared for the NBA draft, the commentary was mostly about how high he would be drafted this year vs staying at Wake another year, and whether the wait would be worth it. Most who were evaluating the prospective NBA players had Collins somewhere in the first round of their draft projections.

The commentary about Doral Moore has not been that. He is nowhere to be found on draft projections. Sometimes one has to infer by what is not happening. In this case, the "what is not happening" is talk, speculation etc. about where Doral might go in the NBA draft. Other players who have declared are in such discussions. So his absence from draft projections is providing some information about his NBA draft prospects.

Elsewhere it has been noted that next year's prospective draft class is a lot weaker than this year's class, particularly with respect to big men. That would improve his potential draft position. Also, for a guy who only has played significant minutes of basketball in one of the last five years, it might improve his standing if he played big minutes in another year. That would help alleviate concerns about his stamina and conditioning.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Literally everything anyone is saying whether it's arguing he should stay or go is speculation considering none of us know anything. You're just not asking these questions to the other side of argument.
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I don't need to. Doral has the answers. I'm not pretending to have the answers for him.
 
Deaconblue said:
When Collins declared for the NBA draft, the commentary was mostly about how high he would be drafted this year vs staying at Wake another year, and whether the wait would be worth it. Most who were evaluating the prospective NBA players had Collins somewhere in the first round of their draft projections.

The commentary about Doral Moore has not been that. He is nowhere to be found on draft projections. Sometimes one has to infer by what is not happening. In this case, the "what is not happening" is talk, speculation etc. about where Doral might go in the NBA draft. Other players who have declared are in such discussions. So his absence from draft projections is providing some information about his NBA draft prospects.

Elsewhere it has been noted that next year's prospective draft class is a lot weaker than this year's class, particularly with respect to big men. That would improve his potential draft position. Also, for a guy who only has played significant minutes of basketball in one of the last five years, it might improve his standing if he played big minutes in another year. That would help alleviate concerns about his stamina and conditioning.
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#AllTheAnswers @DoveMensCare
 
In this thread:
"DORAL WILL NEVER MAKE THE NBA?!!! WHAT IS HE THINKING???!!!"

Also in this thread:
"He should stick around another year because even though he has zero chance this year, he has a very slightly more than zero chance next year because of a weaker class. Plus, Manning needs some wins."
 
RacerDeac said:
In this thread:
"DORAL WILL NEVER MAKE THE NBA?!!! WHAT IS HE THINKING???!!!"

Also in this thread:
"He should stick around another year because even though he has zero chance this year, he has a very slightly more than zero chance next year because of a weaker class. Plus, Manning needs some wins."
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Do you have anything to offer to support "Doral made a great decision to leave Wake at this time"
 
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