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2018 NBA Draft Thread - No Deacons Drafted

The kids are responsible for their decisions. I don't fault manning for having advice ignored. I fault an environment created by ronnie, manning, [Redacted], and the enablers for creating an environment where the kids wanted to ignore what was before their eyes and jump ship.

I also blame you for enjoying their bad decision. lol
 
Fusiondad10 said:
Sorry Wrangor for all the flack you're getting. Totally undeserved. It's pretty obvious that many of your critics here have no sense whatsoever of how things work in real life, and how cloaks of ideology, indignation and political correctness don't always protect you from the bad weather. There's a huge difference between self-righteous and honest.
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lol
 
Wrangor said:
This is an odd take. Blame the coaching staff because the player is a fool. One of the reasons I left the industry was because once I had a family to provide for (rather than just my wife and I), I couldn't imagine placing their sustenance in the hands of a 19 year old's decision making process. Kids do really dumb things. You may not think this possible, but occasionally college students decide they know better than an adult who is trying to help them. I 'lol' at Crawford and Moore because that is all you can do at this point. We all knew this was coming from the beginning, and so to see it play out exactly how we knew it was going to play out is almost so sad you have to laugh. Everything we have heard regarding this situation is that the staff attempted to persuade the two players to stay for their senior year. If both players chose not to heed the advice of their wiser coaches, thats on them, not the staff.
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Who is the “We” who knew how it was going to play out? You thought they were just testing the waters under Manning’s advisement. You mocked those of us who thought Moore and Crawford would leave their names in the draft.
 
Is literally every fusiondad post some holier-than-thou bullshit? Top 5 worst poster on the boards.

That post did literally make me lol, though.

Wrangor's rich hypocrisy is simply being pointed out. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
PhDeac said:
Who is the “We” who knew how it was going to play out? You thought they were just testing the waters under Manning’s advisement. You mocked those of us who thought Moore and Crawford would leave their names in the draft.
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yeah, I thought so too

here it is

Wrangor said:
Ill tell you why. He isn't nearly as nimble, he doesn't have the hands, and he doesn't have the touch. Other than that Doral is just like him. Don't get me wrong, I like Doral, but he is a severely limited basketball player. Manning did a good job putting him in a position to succeed this year. Doral is not, nor in my opinion will ever be an NBA player. But he can be a great college player next year if he sticks with the program, and he can have a long career in Europe after.

I have no issue with either Crawford or Moore testing the NBA draft, but if either stays in the draft, they are delusional. If either of them gives up their senior year and a college degree to go play in Europe they are foolish. Hopefully they will receive good advice, and both will come back to finish their college career at Wake. I guess we won't know until we know, but I expect both to return for their senior year and have a good season.
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oh well, maybe someday we'll learn how things work in real life...lol
 
Of course I come back to this thread and there is absolutely no news but plenty of bickering between posters. Pretty much all we get with these boards nowadays. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion on the whole situation... definitely can't blame anyone who thought Crawford/Moore withdraw in advance of the draft.... I didn't see any mock drafts that had them actually getting picked. We can all conjecture but none of us really know what these players were thinking, who was giving them advice (or not giving them advice), what their circumstances were etc etc. As former Deacons I know they'll be pretty universally supported by the Wake Forest community in the long term... but in the short term many are kind of dumbfounded and a little stung by their early declaration combined with the overall state of the program overall.

Anyway.... Doral Moore caught on with an NBA summer league roster yesterday, if anyone cares. Hope he lands a roster spot... more Deacs in the NBA is always good.

Former Wake Forest center Doral Moore and former Wyoming power forward Alan Herndon will also be on the (Wizards summer league) roster, NBC Sports Washington has learned. Both players worked out for the Wizards in the pre-draft process and Moore had two visits.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washingto...aron-harrison-join-wizards-summer-league-team
 
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thatguy2016 said:
yeah, I thought so too

here it is



oh well, maybe someday we'll learn how things work in real life...lol
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I completely expected them to return and have never stated otherwise. I couldn’t imagine a scenario where they would throw away their senior year and their degree to play summer league and then go to Europe. I was wrong. I guess I am always surprised by extremely obvious poor decisions.

And me being ‘negative’ is laughable. I would never expect a Wake fan to cheer for Tabari Hines at Oregon, and I don’t feel any different about our 4 basketball transfers.

I think this has run its course. Good luck to Moore and Crawford, they are going to need a lot of it. .
 
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Wrangor said:
Yeah it’s Manning’s fault that he turned Moore into a double double machine, then told him not to turn pro. Sorry but I have seen too many Moore’s and Crawford’s come and go to blame the coach that the player didn’t heed the coach’s advice.

Manning has plenty to be blamed for. When he gives the correct advice and the player does the opposite that’s on the player.

Manning is most likely not the long term answer at Wake. I’m cool with that. But I’m not going to blame him for stuff that is completely out of his control. That’s crazy fan talk.
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You should have stopped at the first bolded sentence...nothing to see here, all is well. Uh huh, sure. Danny is deserving of much blame, but it's the players' fault for being dunderheads...what a bunch of maroons. What a coaching apologist...you seem to enjoy (more than you should really) deflecting blame that the coaching staff is very likely deserving to receive. I'm sure both sides are culpable and you should know that. Coaches aren't always right...and they certainly aren't saints.

I'm not saying Crawford and Moore made the best decisions but you're not even attempting to put yourself in their shoes. You have no idea what they have had to go through...none of us do. Perhaps Manning and the coaching staff really are THAT bad. Maybe just maybe there is a disconnect between Manning and Childress, who looks moribund on the sideline every night. Not saying Chill is absolved of any guilt, but something is not adding up. There is a reason so many players defected at once. It can't just be coincidence. And it's not just because they are all "bad apples" who don't know a good decision from their arse-holes. At least they were smart enough to choose WFU...or were they? Maybe just maybe our school isn't as great as we all remember it or want it to be.

Many sides to this story I'm sure, but can we stop with the holier than thou bullshit pontificating and now schadenfreude at the expense of Craw & Moore? We know where you stand...why don't you just shut up and let it play out?
 
Why the Deac Not said:
You should have stopped at the first bolded sentence...nothing to see here, all is well. Uh huh, sure. Danny is deserving of much blame, but it's the players' fault for being dunderheads...what a bunch of maroons. What a coaching apologist...you seem to enjoy (more than you should really) deflecting blame that the coaching staff is very likely deserving to receive. I'm sure both sides are culpable and you should know that. Coaches aren't always right...and they certainly aren't saints.

I'm not saying Crawford and Moore made the best decisions but you're not even attempting to put yourself in their shoes. You have no idea what they have had to go through...none of us do. Perhaps Manning and the coaching staff really are THAT bad. Maybe just maybe there is a disconnect between Manning and Childress, who looks moribund on the sideline every night. Not saying Chill is absolved of any guilt, but something is not adding up. There is a reason so many players defected at once. It can't just be coincidence. And it's not just because they are all "bad apples" who don't know a good decision from their arse-holes. At least they were smart enough to choose WFU...or were they? Maybe just maybe our school isn't as great as we all remember it or want it to be.

Many sides to this story I'm sure, but can we stop with the holier than thou bullshit pontificating and now schadenfreude at the expense of Craw & Moore? We know where you stand...why don't you just shut up and let it play out?
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I'm good with that. Sounds like you are a bit triggered. My bad.
 
Why the Deac Not said:
You should have stopped at the first bolded sentence...nothing to see here, all is well. Uh huh, sure. Danny is deserving of much blame, but it's the players' fault for being dunderheads...what a bunch of maroons. What a coaching apologist...you seem to enjoy (more than you should really) deflecting blame that the coaching staff is very likely deserving to receive. I'm sure both sides are culpable and you should know that. Coaches aren't always right...and they certainly aren't saints.

I'm not saying Crawford and Moore made the best decisions but you're not even attempting to put yourself in their shoes. You have no idea what they have had to go through...none of us do. Perhaps Manning and the coaching staff really are THAT bad. Maybe just maybe there is a disconnect between Manning and Childress, who looks moribund on the sideline every night. Not saying Chill is absolved of any guilt, but something is not adding up. There is a reason so many players defected at once. It can't just be coincidence. And it's not just because they are all "bad apples" who don't know a good decision from their arse-holes. At least they were smart enough to choose WFU...or were they? Maybe just maybe our school isn't as great as we all remember it or want it to be.

Many sides to this story I'm sure, but can we stop with the holier than thou bullshit pontificating and now schadenfreude at the expense of Craw & Moore? We know where you stand...why don't you just shut up and let it play out?
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Blame the coaches for not creating a more enticing environment (both on the court, which we know a lot about, and perhaps off it, which we know nothing about) for Moore and Crawford but don’t blame them for failing to convince Moore and Crawford that it was in each player’s best interest to stay.

All reports are that Manning and his staff are up front with players in advising them on those decisions and active in gathering accurate information. For all we know they told one or both of those guys that they were likely to get an offer in Europe if the NBA passed on them (I doubt it but who knows).

The coaches deserve blame only to the extent a shitty basketball situation contributed to the Moore/Crawford departures. Moore and Crawford don’t deserve blame or ridicule for making a decision they thought was in their best interest. They don’t deserve pity either. They do deserve our support. I hope they have long careers and represent Wake Forest well.
 
In light of Sunday ... just wanted to bump this for some historically bad takes (and some frankly good ones too).
 
vadimivich said:
In light of Sunday ... just wanted to bump this for some historically bad takes (and some frankly good ones too).
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Please give the events of Sunday that warranted bumping this thread after 2 years and 2 months. Thanks.
 
Based upon Win Shares (a basketball metric that is used to determine the number of wins contributed by each player) here are the top 20 players of the 2018 NBA draft to date:

1. Doncic 13.7 (#3 pick)
2. Mitchell Robinson 12.9 (#36 pick) (this one surprised me; Robinson did lead the NBA this year in FG% with a ridiculous 74%; he was also 2nd in block shot %; 10th in rebounding)
3. Gilgeous-Alexander 9.5 (#11 pick)
4. Trae Young 9.1 (#5 pick)
5. Ayton 9.0 (#1 pick)
6. Mikal Bridges 7.7 (#10 pick)
7. Jaren Jackson 6.8 (#4 pick)
8. Landry Shamet 6.2 (#26 pick)
9. Wendell Carter 5.2 (#7 pick)
10. DiVincenzo 4.9 (#17 pick)
11. Jalen Brunson 4.7 (#33 pick)
12. Miles Bridges 4.5 (#10 pick)
13. Marvin Bagley 4.0 (#2 pick)
14. Devonte Graham 3.8 (#34 pick)
15. Bruce Brown 3.6 (#42 pick)
16. Josh Okogie 3.4 (#20 pick)
17. Robert Williams 3.2 (#27 pick)
18. Troy Brown 3.0 (#15 pick)
18. Kevin Huerter 3.0 (#19 pick)
18. Aaron Holiday 3.0 (#23 pick)

The biggest bust was the Knicks picking Kevin Knox with the #9 pick. Knox has a -1.2 win share rating.
 
I understand what you’re saying re busts, but you have to go with Bagley, right? The Knicks didn’t have the option of selecting Doncic but the Kings did.
 
DeacDaddy said:
I understand what you’re saying re busts, but you have to go with Bagley, right? The Knicks didn’t have the option of selecting Doncic but the Kings did.
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13 of the 18 on the list were picked after the Knicks pick.
 
DeacDaddy said:
I understand what you’re saying re busts, but you have to go with Bagley, right? The Knicks didn’t have the option of selecting Doncic but the Kings did.
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obviously Bagley over Luka was a bad move, but too early to give up on Bagley being good

he's only played 75 games and his per 36 minute stats are decent, plus he's only 21
 
I’m just saying, looking back in a decade, Knicks fans won’t remember or care who they picked. Kings fans will probably regret their pick forever. That’s already how it’s beginning to shape up with Luka.
 
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