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Has the men's basketball program now, finally, hit ROCK BOTTOM?

Have we finally arrived?

  • Total voters
    85
  • Poll closed .
RChildress107 said:
I thought the current logic was that we need to fire Manning so we can hire a good coach to turn things around?

Honest question for y’all:

How do you see the next 5 years of Wake basketball playing out?
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I see the next 5 years as 2 more years of manning fail. Program will be in shambles and Wellman makes a mediocre hire leading to only modest improvement over the following 3 years.

Had Wellman hired one of the up and coming young coaches after last season, the next 5 years would have featured at least 2 NCAA tournament appearances.
 
RChildress107 said:
So were you more satisfied with the program on January 1, 2011 (less than 2 years removed from # 1 in the country) than on January 1, 2008?
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LOL. So desperate for an argument/attention.

[Redacted] was the coach, so fuck no
 
wsc8521s said:
Or never make Dino the perma head coach. I think he was reluctant to can Bz so quick b/c then it gives the look that he's canning coaches left and right, so how he handled Dino may have lead to unnecessary additional years of Bz and/or Danny
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Probably, but that is like worrying about how you comb the hair on the giant wart on your nose.
 
RChildress107 said:
Seriously?

IIRC, even the most ardent bzzouters (myself included), recognized at the time that [Redacted] had vastly improved from his dismal opening season. We just accurately thought that each of those seasons were a fireable offense on their own accord and that [Redacted] shouldn’t receive any grace for starting to climb out of the shithole he himself created. We also saw 4 recruiting classes and concluded that if 2012 was the best he can do on that front then 13-14 is the best we can ever expect from him.
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Each of those seasons was a fireable offense because the difference in KP ranking of 117 and 257 doesn't really feel very big. Sure you can quantify the difference in offensive efficiency across those teams but they all sucked donkey dick. Suckage is basically a Bernoulli response variable, you either suck or you don't, and we have sucked for 7 out of 8 years. To some extent there are different degrees of non suckage, sure. But, college basketball fandom is almost entirely about bragging rights and pride in your school. You're in the top 10 you get to brag all you want, top 10- 25 you've got some bragging rights, top 35 you're allowed in the conversation, top 50-300, who gives a fuck about you and how pretty good you were when that one guy who dunks a lot for Atlanta was on your team that one season. You're assessment of team quality and program performance by picking apart advanced statistics completely glosses over the fact that the objective of being a Wake BBall fan is simply to have pride in our school and our team and that for the last 8 years we have pretty much a whole lot of nothing to brag about. You are missing the whole point.
 
Under Manning 12th, 14th, 10th, 14th. I'm good to see what someone else could do.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Under Manning 12th, 14th, 10th, 14th. I'm good to see what someone else could do.
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The sad thing is DM could legit finish 15th this year and still be retained as our coach. I'm not confident at all that RW is putting DM on notice yet despite having every reason for doing so...
 
Unfortunately I think you're right. Just over it. I'm hopeful for good football and baseball seasons this year.
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
The sad thing is DM could legit finish 15th this year and still be retained as our coach. I'm not confident at all that RW is putting DM on notice yet despite having every reason for doing so...
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People were saying exactly this before [Redacted]'s last season. If we have a season like that -- and we easily could -- Danny will be gone, IMO
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
The sad thing is DM could legit finish 15th this year and still be retained as our coach. I'm not confident at all that RW is putting DM on notice yet despite having every reason for doing so...
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And that's why some people can look at the right now and call it rock bottom. RChill's precious Kenpom fails to factor in things like your assistant coach killing a dude or a head coach who has a very low ceiling, a fat extension and seemingly no pressure to produce. Manning could declare himself a Duke fan who thinks UNC was robbed by the NCAA while supporting Putin to take over as Dictator of the US, but as long as we move up a few spots in Kenpom, RChill would seemingly be satisfied with the direction of the program vs last season. It can't be rock bottom if Kenpom doesn't say so!!
 
I really hope Hoard's decision to go pro or not has no impact on whether to keep Manning.
 
RacerDeac said:
And that's why some people can look at the right now and call it rock bottom. RChill's precious Kenpom fails to factor in things like your assistant coach killing a dude or a head coach who has a very low ceiling, a fat extension and seemingly no pressure to produce. Manning could declare himself a Duke fan who thinks UNC was robbed by the NCAA while supporting Putin to take over as Dictator of the US, but as long as we move up a few spots in Kenpom, RChill would seemingly be satisfied with the direction of the program vs last season. It can't be rock bottom if Kenpom doesn't say so!!
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"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to RacerDeac again."
 
This really is one of those situations where trying to make things muddled with stats and grey when it’s clearly just black and white. Do you have fun watching wake basketball and do you have hope for the future? no, ok we suck. Would a new coach bring people hope and fun, sure for a short period with a new coaching thread and until results dictate future hope and fun.
 
RChildress107 said:
So the people constantly pointing out that Manning and [Redacted] have similar w/l records have no other point? They are simply stating the fact for the record, not trying to support some argument about the relative quality of Manning and [Redacted]?
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I think you and I have differing definitions of "constantly", and I won't speak for others

I've mentioned the similarity between their ACC and road records; it highlights the fact that the overall fan experience is pretty much the same

you mentioned the low point of WF basketball was an 11-game losing streak by an average of 17 points; we had another 11-game losing streak by an average of 12.5 points 5 years later; Kenpom favors one over the other and I don't (and once again, according to you, Manning "met or exceeded expectations on the court" that year)
 
wsc8521s said:
People were saying exactly this before [Redacted]'s last season. If we have a season like that -- and we easily could -- Danny will be gone, IMO
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Totally...the only difference is that RW is probably worried about his legacy after completely botching the Dino and Bzz hires/fires and the current DM situation. I think he's going to keep supporting DM because it's not worth the risk to screw it up yet again (if he hasn't already) and I don't believe he intends to hang around long enough to find out one way or the other. A third firing after Skip's passing would cement his terrible management of our once proud flagship program. And as others have noted, if RW gets rid of his third MBB coach within ten years, we'll become a toxic program in the eyes of any decent coach looking to make a move so long as RW is responsible for controlling the next MBB coaching search/hire. I'm willing to bet that he'll let the next AD and administration deal with the problem...

And this is LOWF bullshit and I hate it, but I think DM might have been the last coach that RW will hire for Wake's MBB program. I could see RW retiring within the next 3-5 years and DM muddling along during that time and getting canned by RW's replacement. It also doesn't hurt that Clawson is doing a great job and helps to serve as a distraction from the dumpster fire that is our MBB program.

I really hope I'm wrong and I also really want DM to succeed, but personally...I think all involved at every level of decision making have no clue what they're doing at this point. If I were the BOT, I'd burn it all to the ground and start over with MBB...
 
Ayo said:
I really hope Hoard's decision to go pro or not has no impact on whether to keep Manning.
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Yup. Have this fear as well. I could see a less 'successful' year than the one we had with JC, but with Hoard going top 10 in the draft and DM being kept in order to continue the 'rebuild'.
 
I was thinking the opposite -- that if Hoard stays for his soph year, I hope it doesn't increase the likelihood that Manning stays, too. Assuming the 2019 class is weak as expected, really not much hope for 2019-20 if Hoard goes pro.

At the same time, the timeline of firing coaches and players declaring for the draft doesn't really line up in most cases. My worst fear is we keep Manning through April on the assumption that Hoard is staying for his soph year, and then Hoard kind of draws it out til the end of May like Crawford (as he has every right to do), and he ultimately goes pro and it's too late to fire Manning.
 
Last edited:
Why the Deac Not said:
Stop being a huge asshole and telling people what they can and can't do on a gd message board you freakin' sociopath.
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Just offering friendly advice. Yall seem to get really worked up by this shit. If you are tired of some asshole challenging you every time you make some comparison of the program under Manning to the program under [name redacted], then the simple solution would be to stop. Or just put that poster on ignore. Or call them a sociopath. It�s up to you.
 
knowell said:
I see the next 5 years as 2 more years of manning fail. Program will be in shambles and Wellman makes a mediocre hire leading to only modest improvement over the following 3 years.

Had Wellman hired one of the up and coming young coaches after last season, the next 5 years would have featured at least 2 NCAA tournament appearances.
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Care to be a little more specific?
 
RChildress107 said:
Just offering friendly advice. Yall seem to get really worked up by this shit. If you are tired of some asshole challenging you every time you make some comparison of the program under Manning to the program under [name redacted], then the simple solution would be to stop. Or just put that poster on ignore. Or call them a sociopath. It�s up to you.
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Why do you feel the need to defend Manning against such comparisons, and in general, for multiple hours every week? Don't you have better things to do with your time? You certainly do evoke a lot of emotions from a lot of people - anger, frustration, bewilderment, pity, comedy.
 
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