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Things I have heard

I am not bullish on Manning, but jezus half of you are really just looking for a reason to go apeshit and muse on how we can rise up against Manning/Wellman and overthrow the regime when all we have is one piece of honest info on the progress of players.

It's the equivalent of FoxNews screaming CARAVAN INVASION and us falling for it.

Let the fucking season play the fuck out. We're playing a first round pick and a handful of borderline NBA players (Sarr, Brown, ??). If we suck, I suspect Manning will be gone and/or you'll have two or three months to scream bloody murder - at the right time to scream it. Screaming on the cusp of the season strikes me as irrational. At best.

If I'm sportsnut I'm thinking these dumbshits can't handle honest assessments. Fuck them. I'll point out that players develop over a season, especially frosh. So, if Lewis can't go in game 1, he might well be able to in game 7.

I know it is hard, but just fucking chill for two days. You can go apeshit again after the exhibition game.

The conversation we SHOULD be having is the Nestor ad. I know it is happening on another thread, but holy shit, this is Wellman starting to get worried. Since it seems a bunch of you can't read the tea leaves in front of your fucking face - this means that someone has gotten in Wellman's ear and said, this guy can't coach defense and/or manage a practice and/or seems too comfortable and/or needs help with in game substitutions and strategy. Whatever it is, it is the first pin to fall.
 
jaybone said:
I am not bullish on Manning, but jezus half of you are really just looking for a reason to go apeshit and muse on how we can rise up against Manning/Wellman and overthrow the regime when all we have is one piece of honest info on the progress of players.

It's the equivalent of FoxNews screaming CARAVAN INVASION and us falling for it.

Let the fucking season play the fuck out. We're playing a first round pick and a handful of borderline NBA players (Sarr, Brown, ??). If we suck, I suspect Manning will be gone and/or you'll have two or three months to scream bloody murder - at the right time to scream it. Screaming on the cusp of the season strikes me as irrational. At best.

If I'm sportsnut I'm thinking these dumbshits can't handle honest assessments. Fuck them. I'll point out that players develop over a season, especially frosh. So, if Lewis can't go in game 1, he might well be able to in game 7.

I know it is hard, but just fucking chill for two days. You can go apeshit again after the exhibition game.

The conversation we SHOULD be having is the Nestor ad. I know it is happening on another thread, but holy shit, this is Wellman starting to get worried. Since it seems a bunch of you can't read the tea leaves in front of your fucking face - this means that someone has gotten in Wellman's ear and said, this guy can't coach defense and/or manage a practice and/or seems too comfortable and/or needs help with in game substitutions and strategy. Whatever it is, it is the first pin to fall.
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I am starting to like this Bone fella.
After spending 10 minutes on these boards i often wonder what the fuck do these people do for a livelihood as they are so childish and clueless, and (2) how do their families put up with them
 
jaybone said:
I am not bullish on Manning, but jezus half of you are really just looking for a reason to go apeshit and muse on how we can rise up against Manning/Wellman and overthrow the regime when all we have is one piece of honest info on the progress of players.

It's the equivalent of FoxNews screaming CARAVAN INVASION and us falling for it.

Let the fucking season play the fuck out. We're playing a first round pick and a handful of borderline NBA players (Sarr, Brown, ??). If we suck, I suspect Manning will be gone and/or you'll have two or three months to scream bloody murder - at the right time to scream it. Screaming on the cusp of the season strikes me as irrational. At best.

If I'm sportsnut I'm thinking these dumbshits can't handle honest assessments. Fuck them. I'll point out that players develop over a season, especially frosh. So, if Lewis can't go in game 1, he might well be able to in game 7.

I know it is hard, but just fucking chill for two days. You can go apeshit again after the exhibition game.

The conversation we SHOULD be having is the Nestor ad. I know it is happening on another thread, but holy shit, this is Wellman starting to get worried. Since it seems a bunch of you can't read the tea leaves in front of your fucking face - this means that someone has gotten in Wellman's ear and said, this guy can't coach defense and/or manage a practice and/or seems too comfortable and/or needs help with in game substitutions and strategy. Whatever it is, it is the first pin to fall.
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Agreed. What the Hell is ya'lls problem. This only year 9 of the tear down and rebuild. Sure, most all of the players bailed last year and we are currently recruiting 2 star players and a coach can't really be expected to know how many time outs he has.

Oh, and there ain't no caravan. Caravans have camels. I don't see no frickin camels.
 
"A rebound is like a letter addressed to whom it may concern. On my team, it better concern you." Skip Prosser
 
Did someone say caravan?

SkinnyLegitimateEasternglasslizard-size_restricted.gif


Switch on your electric light!
 
knowell said:
Agreed. What the Hell is ya'lls problem. This only year 9 of the tear down and rebuild. Sure, most all of the players bailed last year and we are currently recruiting 2 star players and a coach can't really be expected to know how many time outs he has.

Oh, and there ain't no caravan. Caravans have camels. I don't see no frickin camels.
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It's the timing. Two days before the start of the season is soooooo the wrong time to go apeshit over Manning.

Basically, in my book, I now know you cry wolf when the sun goes down. So I can now totally ignore your criticisms of Manning and the team. Why? Because it is so unrealistic that Manning is going to be fired before March 1st (about a week before the ACC tournament). It's all pointless.

Criticize game decisions following games - that is okay - particularly if it continues a pattern of bad decisions/choices. and then at or about February 1st, we'll have a story that has developed.

Again, now, you are simply outing yourself as a dumbass. In my book.

As to your retort directly, your issue (well founded) is really about Wellman. I have a hard time blaming Manning for Year 1 thru 4 in your arc. He was at Kansas and Tulsa.

Wellman equals fair game today.

Incidentally, this is the key reason why I am lukewarm on Manning (still). I thought he was just an okay hire at the time with a shot at being successful to super successful due to the narrative he can/could sell kids and kids parents. I don't trust Wellman in the next basketball hire at all, thus I hope Manning succeeds so that doesn't have to happen.

You want to make our school's next school hire even more difficult? Run off a coach before the season's first exhibition game, or at the end of a year he loses a lottery pick a year or two early and an ACC starter a month before the season to Greece. That is the ticket for more failure different faces.

You have to play the cards you are dealt. Right now, Wellman is not just a card in our deck, he's a whole suit. That doesn't make impossible for him to hire a great basketball coach, but it makes it very unlikely (in my book).
 
jaybone said:
It's the timing. Two days before the start of the season is soooooo the wrong time to go apeshit over Manning.
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You do realize that people have been down on Manning for a little longer than that, right? The JB/RC attempts at painting themselves as representatives of the "logical and reasonable" crowd is excellent comedy that I will miss once we have a real coach.

At least RC has some cherry picked numbers to support his weird diatribes. I'm not sure why JB has been such a defender of [name redacted] and Manning. It's impressive that a guy with his track record still has the nerve to call out others as dumbasses.
 
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Bottom line is that:

1) The season is starting,
2) Manning will coach WF this season,
3) Although unlikely, let's hope for a surprisingly strong season

If the season is as bad as most predict, WF's season will end in early March. At that point, there will be plenty of time for this board to use its infinite wisdom to select our next coach (Pelphrey will be available). Might be a good time to focus on the games, the conference, and our players.
 
RacerDeac said:
You do realize that people have been down on Manning for a little longer than that, right? The JB/RC attempts at painting themselves as representatives of the "logical and reasonable" crowd is excellent comedy that I will miss once we have a real coach.
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Sure. I know that. I argued at the end of last year basically what I just argued. Fire Manning after last year and you guarantee a 3rd or 4th choice hire - same as last hire. Made by Wellman.

I also think the simple truth that Manning is a "good guy", one that is not going to create cause (due to a recruiting violation or by bullying players or by sleeping with his secretary) is a net positive in today's environment. I expect some fallout from the FBI investigation. I expect State to be in double jeopardy trouble in a few years due to Keatts and while he seemed a somewhat sexy hire, he was also a dirty candidate. Manning may not be the storyteller you want to invite to dinner or sit at a bar and chat with, but he seems clean and good and honest. That is not particularly sexy, but potentially helpful if you are playing the long game. I've also found him to be a hard worker recruiting wise, which was one of my concerns - dude doesn't need the money like the usual first time major conference hire.

But put simply, from about September to now is simply not the time to be electronically screaming for Manning's scalp. It's bad form. At best. It's counter-productive

Some of it, IMO, has been laughable. Folks screaming about poor recruiting months after signing Hoard and Mucius et al, and a year after beating Kansas for Brown. Understand certain truths. You don't need the recruiting piece when waxing the sky is falling regarding Manning. It's his coaching and program leadership that seem to be on the table.

Again, the wise play for everyone's psyche is to at this point, become post game critics until the season's story starts to play out. There WILL be a narrative. And we don't know it right now. We actually know less about this team than any team in memory. Let it play out a bit. Cheer for your team, be gutted by defeats, be pissed when we play shitty D or miss rotations. The is not to say I think we should tap out and say we suck and re-engage in 10 months. You can't cauterize a wound unless you sterilize the knife by holding it over a flame.
 
I think the reality of the Nestor hiring is that what Jaybone wrote above is true, but that Wake wants it to work with Manning and they thought giving him an experienced X's and O's guy might help it work.

Some of you who are rooting for Wake to have a shitty season so we can quickly dispatch Manning and hire the next coach need to realize that the worse the situation, the less good coaches are going to want to touch it.
 
MichDeac25 said:
Some of you who are rooting for Wake to have a shitty season so we can quickly dispatch Manning and hire the next coach need to realize that the worse the situation, the less good coaches are going to want to touch it.
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We heard that after Y1/2/3 of [name redacted]. And then after Y4, his best season and proof that we would stick it out with a coach, we got Manning. We can hire a good coach if we want to. Plenty of other teams with less potential and resources have hired better coaches. The "we can't fire a coach because it looks bad" excuse is dumb. It's just not true. Besides, we've proven we'll employ coaches who don't perform. If anything, it should be attractive as hell...top facilities, top conference, history of success, but no actual expectations of success from your boss. Wellman is the only thing keeping us from hiring a good coach. The folks with money can go around him like they did with Clawson.
 
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jaybone said:
Sure. I know that. I argued at the end of last year basically what I just argued. Fire Manning after last year and you guarantee a 3rd or 4th choice hire - same as last hire. Made by Wellman.

I also think the simple truth that Manning is a "good guy", one that is not going to create cause (due to a recruiting violation or by bullying players or by sleeping with his secretary) is a net positive in today's environment. I expect some fallout from the FBI investigation. I expect State to be in double jeopardy trouble in a few years due to Keatts and while he seemed a somewhat sexy hire, he was also a dirty candidate. Manning may not be the storyteller you want to invite to dinner or sit at a bar and chat with, but he seems clean and good and honest. That is not particularly sexy, but potentially helpful if you are playing the long game. I've also found him to be a hard worker recruiting wise, which was one of my concerns - dude doesn't need the money like the usual first time major conference hire.

But put simply, from about September to now is simply not the time to be electronically screaming for Manning's scalp. It's bad form. At best. It's counter-productive

Some of it, IMO, has been laughable. Folks screaming about poor recruiting months after signing Hoard and Mucius et al, and a year after beating Kansas for Brown. Understand certain truths. You don't need the recruiting piece when waxing the sky is falling regarding Manning. It's his coaching and program leadership that seem to be on the table.

Again, the wise play for everyone's psyche is to at this point, become post game critics until the season's story starts to play out. There WILL be a narrative. And we don't know it right now. We actually know less about this team than any team in memory. Let it play out a bit. Cheer for your team, be gutted by defeats, be pissed when we play shitty D or miss rotations. The is not to say I think we should tap out and say we suck and re-engage in 10 months. You can't cauterize a wound unless you sterilize the knife by holding it over a flame.
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So much wrong with this post. Glad Manning is a good guy. There are a lot of those that can't coach either.

Not needing the money is not a positive. We need a coach hungry to make a name, not somebody who needs a hobby and does not want to be a greeter at Walmart.

LOL at disparaging Keatts. That is who Wake should have hired. He is hungry and knows how to coach. You better hope he is dirty since he will be kicking our ass for the foreseeable future.

We all know that Manning is not going anywhere before the season is over (or maybe ever), but that does not mean it should not have been the case. How many years in a row do you want to see Manning screw up a game plan and play ridiculous lineups.

Wake basketball is in a big hole. It needs to stop digging.
 
RacerDeac said:
We heard that after Y1/2/3 of [name redacted]. And then after Y4, his best season and proof that we would stick it out with a coach, we got Manning. We can hire a good coach if we want to. Plenty of other teams with less potential and resources have hired better coaches. The "we can't fire a coach because it looks bad" excuse is dumb. It's just not true. Besides, we've proven we'll employ coaches who don't perform. If anything, it should be attractive as hell...top facilities, top conference, history of success, but no actual expectations of success from your boss. Wellman is the only thing keeping us from hiring a good coach. The folks with money can go around him like they did with Clawson.
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Yep. And no way that Ryan Odom turns us down. I am not sure who some of you guys want.
 
RacerDeac said:
You do realize that people have been down on Manning for a little longer than that, right? The JB/RC attempts at painting themselves as representatives of the "logical and reasonable" crowd is excellent comedy that I will miss once we have a real coach.

At least RC has some cherry picked numbers to support his weird diatribes. I'm not sure why JB has been such a defender of [name redacted] and Manning. It's impressive that a guy with his track record still has the nerve to call out others as dumbasses.
Click to expand...

The Gatekeepers of the Argument, telling us when we can and cannot have an opinion Manning. Literally. “Tomorrow, when he inevitably does the coaching thing we don’t want him to do. But not today.”

Or as someone aptly described RC the other day, the OGBoards Ombudsman.
 
And of course we need to "guard our damn man".
 
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