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Thread: Official 2021-22 NBA Offseason Thread - Bill Russell dead at 88

  1. #2941
    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    But removing the space he can create when the PNR is working is a bigger deal. I also agree teams like the Heat and Raps and Cs who play physical, heavy switching, athletic team defense can really lock down individual scorers in the playoffs and frustrate them.
    Yeah this is definitely true. I just think that the team defense of the Heat, with Bam Adebayo able to guard the PnR against injured ATL bigs, was a bigger deal than Trae not being able to draw as many fouls in regards to how much space Trae had to work with.

    Regardless, not a great year or outcome for the Hawks. I'm curious to see what happens this offseason, wouldn't be at all surprised to see them offload Gallo if the opportunity arises.

  2. #2942
    Broderick Hicks KidA23's Avatar
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    Definitely think they explore a Collins trade.

  3. #2943
    Quote Originally Posted by KidA23 View Post
    Definitely think they explore a Collins trade.
    Damn I really thought people would stop saying this once we signed him to the extension.

    The core of this team is Trae/JC/Hunter. There's obviously a lot of NBA fans who don't believe a team with that core can succeed in the playoffs, but that's what the core is and will very likely remain. The only way I see either of Hunter or JC not being on the team next year is if there is a sudden opportunity to add a top 25 or so player. The only guy who I can even think of that might make sense would be Gobert, but that would be a Capela replacement, not a Collins replacement.

  4. #2944
    all the trae slurping ignores the fact that he couldn't guard rj

  5. #2945
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    Definitely. I think Gallo and Collins are gone and Okongwu will play a larger role. I'd be more confident about that if Jalen Johnson was ready. I think they draft one of those rangy 6-8 guys who will probably be available at 16.

    Not sure who will trade for Collins. The Spurs are one of a few teams with a huge hole at PF, cap room, and a desire to win now.

  6. #2946
    It's incredible to me how NBA media seems to give Collins more credit for the Hawks success than posters on a damn Wake Forest message board. He's a good player, and I sincerely doubt the Hawks have any interest in trading him for literally any player on the Spurs roster.

  7. #2947
    Quote Originally Posted by JuiceCrewAllStar View Post
    the playoffs beget a lot of small sample size arguments about players, especially narratives around clutch-ness

    Giannis' game was never going to win a championship until he did; Middleton was a choker until he wasn't; Trae's game elevated in the playoffs until it didn't; and so on

    the playoffs are indeed different and some of the trends are real -- e.g. the Thibs Bulls that won a ton of games in the regular season but never did anything in the postseason -- but a lot of playoff narratives are just noise
    This is a good point. In last years playoffs alone, Milwaukees first two series were about how they were winning because of Middleton and Giannis couldnt carry a team. That all flipped in the Finals
    Last edited by DeacdeTejas; 04-27-2022 at 03:07 PM.

  8. #2948
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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon14 View Post
    It's incredible to me how NBA media seems to give Collins more credit for the Hawks success than posters on a damn Wake Forest message board. He's a good player, and I sincerely doubt the Hawks have any interest in trading him for literally any player on the Spurs roster.
    I think Collins is gone from what I've read in NBA media about tension in the locker room and what I see with my own eyes that they're barely tapping into JC's game and that Okongwu seems primed for a bigger role.

  9. #2949
    Jrue is just the best. Completely counteracts Grayson's presence.

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...te-year-second

  10. #2950
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    I do watch the Hawks. I don't think they'll be better without Collins. But they're not going to stand pat after a disappointing season. Gallo and Collins seem like the most obvious moves to make.

  11. #2951
    Given how the playoffs have unfolded so far, what are peopleís predictions for ECF and WCF?

  12. #2952
    Idk but Celtics Bucks and the winner of that vs Heat should be awesome to watch

  13. #2953
    on the topic of narrative, i get annoyed with the "you need XYZ to win a championship"

    i definitely think there are some good practices for roster construction, like creating lineup and matchup flexibility, trying to get at least two and ideally 3 players in or around the top 25 in the league, etc.

    but also we've seen big shifts in the league every 5-10 years or so to the extent that the people wanting to set a narrative based on last year are a bit narrow-minded

    there are so many players now with unique skillsets that to just say roster construction must be XYZ is reductive

    you can't really name a player in the league without limitations, so every narrative falls short in some way or another

  14. #2954
    Broderick Hicks KidA23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    I think Collins is gone from what I've read in NBA media about tension in the locker room and what I see with my own eyes that they're barely tapping into JC's game and that Okongwu seems primed for a bigger role.
    Yea it just feels I'm always reading about JC and Trae bickering about FGAs or something and Okongwu seems poised to soak about a lot more minutes (assuming he can stay on the court). JC's offensive skill set has always felt a bit underutilized (at least to me) as he seems like he'd be a perfect pick and pop partner for Trae given his (JC's) explosiveness as a hard rim-roller and ability to catch and shoot from 3.

  15. #2955
    Sorry, deleted original post because I was typing up something longer. But I don't want to derail this whole thread in the midst of the playoffs to an argument about the Hawks.

    I'll just say, your logic makes no sense. Okongwu and Collins don't do the same things. Okongwu and Capela are much more similar than Okongwu and Collins. So saying they should trade Collins because Okongwu needs more minutes doesn't make sense and won't happen.

    They also just signed Collins to an extension, and he (when he was healthy) was a large part of their success last year with Trae. Bad franchises dump newly extended cornerstone players because they had a disappointing season. The Hawks aren't going to do that unless the return for a JC trade is just an obvious slam dunk.

    There isn't a feasible trade with the Spurs that would be a slam dunk, and frankly I couldn't even think of a reasonable one that would even slightly improve the Hawks. I understand that you are a Spurs fan, but implying the best course of action for the Hawks is to trade JC to the Spurs (or a similar team) is so ridiculously biased towards the perspective of the Spurs that I don't really know how to engage much further on this.

  16. #2956
    we just generally call that spurs donk-ery and move on

  17. #2957
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    Weird take, 14. I just mentioned the Spurs as an example of one of a few teams that would go in for an offensive-minded PF in a league that doesn't really value them. Keep in mind that even as a Spurs fan, I wanted JC to stay with the Hawks last year. I just think based on how this season has gone that Collins' future may not be with the Hawks. I'm not the only one thinking this:

    https://theathletic.com/3269593/2022...ks-trae-young/

    The real question now: how can the Hawks acquire said No. 2 option? Thatís going to be the most interesting question this offseason ó and weíll surely be discussing it more in-depth when the season ends. They might be in a tough position because their young players didnít take that leap, and in some cases, they went backward. Clint Capela and Collins might be their best trade options at this point, and losing one or both would be difficult to swallow, considering their value to the team. A trade for a No. 2 option isnít as simple as including Hunter, Danilo Gallinari and some picks, then calling it a day. Youíve got to give up quality to get quality.

  18. #2958
    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    Idk but Celtics Bucks and the winner of that vs Heat should be awesome to watch
    I'm not gonna crown the Heat given their health status and the fact that Sixers will have the best player on the floor

  19. #2959
    Broderick Hicks KidA23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeacDaddy View Post
    Given how the playoffs have unfolded so far, what are peopleís predictions for ECF and WCF?
    Celtics/Heat
    Warriors/Suns (though I might give Mavericks like a legit 40% chance of taking down the Suns)

    Celtics over Heat
    Warriors over Suns

  20. #2960
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuiceCrewAllStar View Post
    I'm not gonna crown the Heat given their health status and the fact that Sixers will have the best player on the floor
    True, but the toughest players on the floor will be on the Heat. And obviously Bam is no slouch.

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