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Wake Ken Pom Thread: 2014-15 Preaseason = 104, Currently = 125 Season Over

Here is a decent way to put our improvement in context.

It used to be the case that the only time we talked about teams ranked worse than 100 was in terms of scheduling. Wake used to play teams ranked 250 or worse as our cupcakes and our SOS would suck because of it. Duke on the other hand would play zero road games but feast on teams ranked between 100-200. We would complain that there SOS was deceptive because when you are a top team the difference between playing the 141st team in the country and the 251st team was irrelevant when it came to wins and losses.

We have gone from being a Wake Forest cupcake to being a Duke cupcake. Congratulations Ron and Jeff.
 
there has been no such thing as a "wake forest cupcake" since dino was fired.
 
Neurodeac said:
Just to highlight possible counterpoints to your argument: Tree is a freshman, Travis an experienced Junior. Tree is good passer but he doesn't have experience with inbounds plays in a tight ACC game. Chase is the guy who panicked and screwed up against Seton Hall and made a couple of poor decisions late in this game. Moto was the 3rd option on that inbounds play. Bennett switched the coverage to have the inbound passer defender to fake defending the pass and then turn around and cover the man who was freed on the pick play. Good strategy by Bennett because it kept us from using our first two options. Glad that Bz had a 3rd option that worked. Moto in that position may have been a mistake but several of our other options are not as "ball strong" as Moto and may have gotten stripped.
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Other than Madison, Moto is the last guy in our rotation who should be an inbound option in a must foul situation. He is a horrible FT shooter and not a good passer.

Tree is already a much better and confident passer than Travis. Plus Travis is an excellent FT shooter and is able get the ball. Travis should be able to receive the pass not throw it.
 
mattwfu99 said:
I was thinking about this last night. If Buzz is not our coach next year, I think there's a pretty good argument that the team the new coach will inherit is better than the team Buzz inherited (I am not counting Woods as being part of what Buzz inherited even if he technically left after Buzz got here, because I don't think his transfer had anything to do with the coaching situation).
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I think there is an excellent chance our next coach will inherit a better roster than Buzz, no matter when that is. It would be pretty difficult for it to be much worse honestly.
 
The situation Bzzz inherited was awful. I know most of you used to love all over JTT but he was always self involved and thought he was more important than the team. Woods' personal issues that had to be taken into account, Chennault being injured, Tabb was worthless on the court, as was Ty, Ari proved he cared more about himself than the team in about the final week he was at Wake before he transferred. That and then take into account how many seniors that were integral to our success under Dino having graduated. The coaching job at Wake Forest at that point in time had to be one of the least attractive jobs in the country. For how much all of you hate on Buzz, he got the short end of the stick. And even though almost none of you ever want to give him any credit whatsoever he has done a hell of a job recruiting some fine young men who visibly want to play for this team and want to win for Wake Forest. I'd rather have our team full of freshman everyday of the week because they want to play hard and win rather than the self important players that Dino recruited.

 
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Was the pass in to moto off a timeout or directly after a made basket? Because I have no issue with him being out there on a defensive possession, but it would be harder to take if it was after a timeout when we could have subbed him in on a UVA foul.
 
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From the ESPN play-by-play

0:59 Evan Nolte made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Jontel Evans. 46-50
0:55 Virginia Full Timeout.
0:54 Foul on Joe Harris 46-50
0:54 Arnaud Adala-Moto missed Free Throw.
 
Someone remind our guys - you can run the baseline after a made basket. We didn't seem to realize that and the reff was not clearly pointing that out, - like they are supposed to do. A couple of times, it would have helped.
 
Haros said:
Well shit. Criticism is entirely fair.
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Criticism is absolutely fair.

In Buzz's defense, he fixed the problem. After Moto missed the FT, he got Cav in for him in time for the next inbounds play. Doesn't excuse the mistake, but at least he realized it (late) and fixed it.
 
DeaconWalker said:
The situation Bzzz inherited was awful. I know most of you used to love all over JTT but he was always self involved and thought he was more important than the team. Woods' personal issues that had to be taken into account, Chennault being injured, Tabb was worthless on the court, as was Ty, Ari proved he cared more about himself than the team in about the final week he was at Wake before he transferred. That and then take into account how many seniors that were integral to our success under Dino having graduated. The coaching job at Wake Forest at that point in time had to be one of the least attractive jobs in the country. For how much all of you hate on Buzz, he got the short end of the stick. And even though almost none of you ever want to give him any credit whatsoever he has done a hell of a job recruiting some fine young men who visibly want to play for this team and want to win for Wake Forest. I'd rather have our team full of freshman everyday of the week because they want to play hard and win rather than the self important players that Dino recruited.
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You can't say that the Wake job was one of the least attractive jobs because of things that happened during [Redacted]'s first season, that's just results-oriented thinking. If you want to argue that [Redacted] ended up in a bad situation, that is one thing, but don't try to convince people that the Wake position was unattractive. The only thing unattractive about it at the time [Redacted] was hired was that Wellman had just fired a guy with back to back NCAA appearances.
 
DCDeac said:
Yeah, we either realized it and UVA was just playing good defense - that happens... The Moto pass happened at the end of the 5 second count, so maybe CJ just couldn't get free. CJ did get the next one, then Cav, then CJ again.

Either the adjustment was late or the execution was off. I'm ok leaving the better defender in when we're still 2 possessions up.
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In this situation there is absolutely no excuse for a horrible FT shooter (Moto, Madison, Devin) to be on the court PERIOD. You can't gloss over this. Middle school JV, CYO coaches understand this.
 
RJKarl said:
In this situation there is absolutely no excuse for a horrible FT shooter (Moto, Madison, Devin) to be on the court PERIOD. You can't gloss over this. Middle school JV, CYO coaches understand this.
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Horrible free throw shooters: Moto, Madison, Devin, Tree. Codi is borderline. You don't want any of those guys shooting at the end of a game.

So you propose the lineup to be Fischer, CJ, Cav, McKie, and nobody when we're up by 2 possessions? Look, I'm not saying it's not preferable to have Cav in there or that it wasn't a mistake in hindsight. I'm just saying that up 2 possessions in a defensively-biased game it's not some sort of unforgivable sin to have a bad free throw shooter on the floor who's not involved in the inbounds play. We have to have at least one bad free throw shooter on the floor at all times just due to our personnel. It's just as much on the inbounder who threw Moto the ball and our guards for not getting open as it is on having a bad shooter on the floor, which is inevitable.
 
There was a full timeout taken before that possession. There is no excuse and it is unforgivable to have the next to the worst FT shooter on the court in that situation. any rookie coach knows better.

The opposition was likely coached to let him get the ball and double our good guys. This is what happened.

Plus Moto can be sitting by the scorer's table to come into the game immediately after the foul.

It's not that it was just Moto. If it was Madison or Devin, I'd have the same position.

If there was no TO, you'd have an argument. There was a TO. There is no excuse.
 
RJKarl said:
There was a full timeout taken before that possession. There is no excuse and it is unforgivable to have the next to the worst FT shooter on the court in that situation. any rookie coach knows better.

The opposition was likely coached to let him get the ball and double our good guys. This is what happened.

Plus Moto can be sitting by the scorer's table to come into the game immediately after the foul.

It's not that it was just Moto. If it was Madison or Devin, I'd have the same position.

If there was no TO, you'd have an argument. There was a TO. There is no excuse.
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You're right. You've been right. You'll be right. Can we please just vacate this line of conversation? Even Haros backed off.
 
RJKarl said:
In this situation there is absolutely no excuse for a horrible FT shooter (Moto, Madison, Devin) to be on the court PERIOD. You can't gloss over this. Middle school JV, CYO coaches understand this.
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Well, your priorities probably go like this:

1) avoid 5 second call
2) avoid a steal/turnover
3) make free throws

Those three things have to happens successfully, and unfortunately someone like Fischer (good at #3) has shown he's kind of shitty at #2 (see Seton Hall game).

CJ and Travis are obvious players to have one the court, as are Cavanaugh and CMM. But who do you throw out there after that? We've already ruled out Madison and Devin, and Fischer's iffy at best. Rountree? Maybe? We certainly need a play to get someone besides Moto the ball in that situation, but it did look like Moto was the 3rd option and only got the ball as we tried to avoid the 5 second call. Cavanaugh might be that 3rd option in that play, but Moto strikes me as a better "receiver" of the ball on an inbounds due to his athleticism.

I think it's fair to say that Moto can be on the court in those situations, but it's also fair to say that he should probably be a 4th or 5th option. We definitely need a play that doesn't rely on Moto's skills to receive the ball.
 
In those situations, I'd have Tree triggering the play with Travis, CJ, Cav and either Codi or Chase. I'd probably lean a little towards Codi because he can set better picks for the others and is stronger.

I'd actually have Cav as the #2 option behind CJ. He's a very good FT shooter (77.5%), is big and is strong. He's hard to guard after he sets the pick for CJ.

It's not fair to say have Moto on the court. Just like you wouldn't put Madison in the primary rebounding position on the FT lane in a close game.
 
I really don't think you can have Chase on the floor in those situations. Bigger, more athletic defenders will give him fits and he just isn't strong enough with the ball.
 
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