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MTOW: Shows You How Much I Know

BBD, Dan gave people with foresight so much grief over the years, even through PMs on Scout. He deserves no credit for figuring out 2+2 after most of a slow fanbase is doing long division.

DC, why is being glacier-like to come to obvious conclusions a virtue? Are better off because Grobe was given this much time to get this bad? Grobe didn't just become a liability 3 weeks ago. We are seeing old wounds that have been untreated and left to rot because people like you are in charge of Wake athletics and assumed that Grobe could repeat 2006-08 without understanding how he did it and why we haven't been able to repeat it. Just because it makes people feel better to say crap like "the running game didn't look good in the Spring Game because we didn't want to show our new offense to BC" doesn't make it right.
 
PhDeac said:
BBD, Dan gave people with foresight so much grief over the years, even through PMs on Scout. He deserves no credit for figuring out 2+2 after most of a slow fanbase is doing long division.

DC, why is being glacier-like to come to obvious conclusions a virtue? Are better off because Grobe was given this much time to get this bad? Grobe didn't just become a liability 3 weeks ago. We are seeing old wounds that have been untreated and left to rot because people like you are in charge of Wake athletics and assumed that Grobe could repeat 2006-08 without understanding how he did it and why we haven't been able to repeat it. Just because it makes people feel better to say crap like "the running game didn't look good in the Spring Game because we didn't want to show our new offense to BC" doesn't make it right.
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So much this. ChrisL is completely wrong with his comment about being objectively in good shape two years ago. We had awful coaching then that cost us games. This has been a long time coming and is no surprise to many of us. To those just coming around: Welcome. But there was no need to wait year after year before making a change. We are MUCH WORSE OFF for giving Grobe the cushion he "earned" with the Orange Bowl appearance.

ETA: And the Buzz hire was an absolute fucking joke from the minute it was announced. We have gotten worse every second that our AD has been in charge since this hire.
 
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Turd Ferguson said:
So much this. ChrisL is completely wrong with his comment about being objectively in good shape two years ago. We had awful coaching then that cost us games. This has been a long time coming and is no surprise to many of us. To those just coming around: Welcome. But there was no need to wait year after year before making a change. We are MUCH WORSE OFF for giving Grobe the cushion he "earned" with the Orange Bowl appearance.

ETA: And the Buzz hire was an absolute fucking joke from the minute it was announced. We have gotten worse every second that our AD has been in charge since this hire.
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Even if you believe that to be the case about our program then, which I disagree, you must realize that the idea of firing Grobe after the 2011 season is a laughable suggestion.
 
Damn it, Ph. Can you just not be happy that the most visible person to the non-lunitic fringe (i.e. message board posters) has come to your way of thinking?
 
PhDeac said:
DC, why is being glacier-like to come to obvious conclusions a virtue? Are better off because Grobe was given this much time to get this bad? Grobe didn't just become a liability 3 weeks ago. We are seeing old wounds that have been untreated and left to rot because people like you are in charge of Wake athletics and assumed that Grobe could repeat 2006-08 without understanding how he did it and why we haven't been able to repeat it. Just because it makes people feel better to say crap like "the running game didn't look good in the Spring Game because we didn't want to show our new offense to BC" doesn't make it right.
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Glacier-like is a exaggeration. That's what a fan who says stuff like 8 wins should be our floor would say. And I'm fine with the outlook. I'm fine with Lectro hyping the players and I'm fine with die hard fans criticizing Jim Grobe 2 years removed from the best run in Wake football history like you did in 2010. For a beat writer, given Wake's history and Grobe's success, it's not glacier-like to watch the program have 2 down years, go to a bowl game after being a kick away from another ACC title game, struggle through an injury-plagued year and then start seriously criticizing the program after a very poor 3 game start.

What conclusion was obvious a year ago? That we should fire Grobe? Because that is certainly not the opinion held by the majority of folks who cover college football. Ph - you were critical of Grobe heading into 2006 after only 1 bowl game in 5 years. You said that bowl was with Caldwell's players and we were moving backwards, if I recall. Was Dan a failure then by not sharing your opinion on the eve of an ACC Championship?

I just don't understand your need to mock and condescend to Dan over everything the guy writes instead of just disagreeing with him. It's a freaking blog and you're taking pot-shots at his grammar.
 
DCDeac said:
Glacier-like is a exaggeration. That's what a fan who says stuff like 8 wins should be our floor would say. And I'm fine with the outlook. I'm fine with Lectro hyping the players and I'm fine with die hard fans criticizing Jim Grobe 2 years removed from the best run in Wake football history like you did in 2010. For a beat writer, given Wake's history and Grobe's success, it's not glacier-like to watch the program have 2 down years, go to a bowl game after being a kick away from another ACC title game, struggle through an injury-plagued year and then start seriously criticizing the program after a very poor 3 game start.

What conclusion was obvious a year ago? That we should fire Grobe? Because that is certainly not the opinion held by the majority of folks who cover college football. Ph - you were critical of Grobe heading into 2006 after only 1 bowl game in 5 years. You said that bowl was with Caldwell's players and we were moving backwards, if I recall. Was Dan a failure then by not sharing your opinion on the eve of an ACC Championship?

I just don't understand your need to mock and condescend to Dan over everything the guy writes instead of just disagreeing with him. It's a freaking blog and you're taking pot-shots at his grammar.[/QUOTE]

Usually it's because a person has self-esteem issues or penis envy.
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DC, I linked the floor stuff last time you did this. You're being intentionally dense in an attempt to mock me. It's not cute. Six game floor because our schedule is so poor. If we're in decent shape at all, it should be easy to pick up 6 wins. Anything less is a sign there are legitimate problems.

The conclusion has been obvious that there are real problems with this program. Do you think the poor offense, poor execution, lethargy, poor clock management, etc just started 3 weeks ago?

And your last sentence is rich given the extent to which you mock and condescend to me instead of just disagreeing.
 
Again, coaches have a shelf life. If you hang around long enough, eventually you get fired. That doesn't necessarily make the first people to complain about a coach "ahead of the curve" or any such nonsense.

By the way, Lebron James is washed up. I'll be back in 10 years to say I told you so.
 
PhDeac said:
DC, I linked the floor stuff last time you did this. You're being intentionally dense in an attempt to mock me. It's not cute. Six game floor because our schedule is so poor. If we're in decent shape at all, it should be easy to pick up 6 wins. Anything less is a sign there are legitimate problems.

The conclusion has been obvious that there are real problems with this program. Do you think the poor offense, poor execution, lethargy, poor clock management, etc just started 3 weeks ago?

And your last sentence is rich given the extent to which you mock and condescend to me instead of just disagreeing.
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I did not mean to mock you. You agreed that 6 wins should be automatic so 8 should be the floor, and I quoted the post where you said it. Not a big deal - so 6 games is your floor and 8 wins is average. Whatever. I think another poster threw up numbers from historically dominant programs that didn't live up to your floor premise. Good coaches have down years.

I think you're missing the point of my post. I think it's fine to have the sunshine folks and it's fine for posters like you to be extremely critical.

I don't think there is any value to ripping Dan Collins after every blog post. He was critical last year. He's just not critical enough for you, as in he's not calling for Grobe and Lobo to be fired. Which he doesn't do anyway. Do you think it's Dan's job to be the mouthpiece of the most critical in our fan base? Can you honestly say mocking his sentence structure in a blog is valid criticism from you?
 
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faxmachineanthem said:
Again, coaches have a shelf life. If you hang around long enough, eventually you get fired. That doesn't necessarily make the first people to complain about a coach "ahead of the curve" or any such nonsense.
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Unless you're Paterno, but then it comes out later that you've been sheltering pedophiles.
 
It's much easier for Grobe to change his offense, like when Riley took the helm, than it is to fire him. I want Wake to succeed, which means Grobe has to change inorder to succeed. It's easier to throw the ball then to find 5 OLs in the next 3 days to make LOBOs O work. I think (hope) Grobe has realized it, and Air-Grobe will return at West Point. If not, grab the pitch forks and light the torches.
 
Wellman should fire Lobo and see what Grobe does. Either he quits, negotiating a buyout for less than what his contract dictates, or he maybe he finally develops a sense of urgency and brings in some new perspectives.

Ideally Grobe should fire Lobo himself, but that doesn't seem likely.
 
faxmachineanthem said:
Again, coaches have a shelf life. If you hang around long enough, eventually you get fired. That doesn't necessarily make the first people to complain about a coach "ahead of the curve" or any such nonsense.

By the way, Lebron James is washed up. I'll be back in 10 years to say I told you so.
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tsywake said:
Unless you're Paterno, but then it comes out later that you've been sheltering pedophiles.
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Yea, pretty much all of this. The list goes on: Mack Brown, Bobby Bowden, Lloyd Carr. Hell, even Paterno's teams had been sputtering for a decade before the pedophile ordeal came out.

"Coach for life" status is a really, really bad thing for a program.
 
I started to turn in 2011, when it was obvious that with better playcalling and coaching, we could have found ourselves in Charlotte. No doubt that we had the talent. Since then, i got completely sick of the staff last year and the early results aren't helping that opinion.
 
DCDeac said:
I did not mean to mock you. You agreed that 6 wins should be automatic so 8 should be the floor, and I quoted the post where you said it. Not a big deal - so 6 games is your floor and 8 wins is average. Whatever. I think another poster threw up numbers from historically dominant programs that didn't live up to your floor premise. Good coaches have down years.

I think you're missing the point of my post. I think it's fine to have the sunshine folks and it's fine for posters like you to be extremely critical.

I don't think there is any value to ripping Dan Collins after every blog post. He was critical last year. He's just not critical enough for you, as in he's not calling for Grobe and Lobo to be fired. Which he doesn't do anyway. Do you think it's Dan's job to be the mouthpiece of the most critical in our fan base? Can you honestly say mocking his sentence structure in a blog is valid criticism from you?
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You keep misinterpreting what I said yet you keep trying. A down year would be below the floor. I never said an 8 win average.
 
PhDeac said:
You keep misinterpreting what I said yet you keep trying. A down year would be below the floor. I never said an 8 win average.
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You're hung up on this "win floor" stuff when the real point of his post was this:

I think it's fine to have the sunshine folks and it's fine for posters like you to be extremely critical.

I don't think there is any value to ripping Dan Collins after every blog post. He was critical last year. He's just not critical enough for you, as in he's not calling for Grobe and Lobo to be fired. Which he doesn't do anyway. Do you think it's Dan's job to be the mouthpiece of the most critical in our fan base? Can you honestly say mocking his sentence structure in a blog is valid criticism from you?
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