Why are Wake fans so angry?

[Wakeforest22890]

And yet people went even further and said that they would even be willing to go to the FCS for basketball success - well beyond a simple 3-9 season for the foreseeable future. What does that mean then? I mean beyond the fact that these people are idiots?

 

[PhDeac]

That our fans are part of the reason for the low/no standard of success.

The poll was awful though. It's like me asking you if you'd want your girlfriend to love you if it meant Doofus became a paraplegic for the rest of his life. If you say yes, it doesn't mean you love your girlfriend. It means you have low expectations for her and hate your brother.

 

[mebanedeac]

Haven't read everything on this thread; however, personally I am frustrated by the lack of candid communication about the obvious state of affairs in both basketball and football. As for Dino's hire, there was no real alternative if Battle would not accept the HC position. However the contract extension followed by the dismissal and the inadequate explanation stirred a measure of incredulity. That made the hiring of Bz an almost certain disaster short of miraculous success. The lack of candor regarding Dino's dismissal paved the way for the present situation, in my opinion. The only thing that would have pacified the disturbance would have been a big name hire. RW pressed his credibility with Bz. I do not think that many coaches could have accomplished a whole lot more with what he inherited than Bz has to this point. Obviously that is a controversial opinion; but it doesn't matter because the good will of many vocal fans has been exhausted.

Regarding football, for me it is the impression of being content with failure coupled, again, with the lack of candor which has me frustrated. Athletics are not worth being angry (I'm save that for larger causes); however, as a fervent fan I am frustrated...hopeful, yet frustrated.

 

[deaconson]

Wake will always live in the shadow of UNC and Duke re: basketball, it's just the way it is. That's not LOWF, that's the way it would be for all but a handful of other teams in the country (Kentucky and Kansas?). Not saying we can't or won't be national powers, but we will never have the history of a UNC or Duke.

For a head coach coming into that job, that HAS to be an immense amount of pressure...you've already pretty much failed before you've begun. So Wellman makes the Bzz hire, and truly hopes it works out. He sticks with his guns even when it starts looking like it was a bad hire...and is now at the point of making the fans and other coaches expect below-average results on the floor. That serves two purposes: 1) Makes it so the fans are incredibly pleased with even a mediocre season, and even more enthused about an above average season, and 2) Makes the HC position at Wake Forest appear slightly more appealing due to the already lowered standards and it keeps the giant monkeys known as UNC and Duke basketball off your back for at least a few years while you work to build your own foundation at Wake.



The more I think about it, the more it seems like that HAS to be what Wellman is doing. Had he made a good hire after Dino (say an up and comer who could keep the fans enthused and excited) and then that coach failed, it would be like a desecration of the memory of Skip/Wake Basketball. At least with hiring an unproven guy in [Redacted], fans won't expect deep tourney runs and final fours right away, and you always have the fall guy in Dino to blame.

In terms of Wellman's viewpoint, it seems like a win-win (assuming he is able to make a hire after [Redacted] that can return the program to respectability and doesn't cost him his job)....he buys time, looks like a genius if [Redacted] actually pans out, and can always blame the other guy if it fails. And there's nowhere to go but up from the shithole we've fallen into.

1) you are giving wellman the exact thing he wants. making everyone think he is the smartest guy in the room. He is not.
2) [Redacted] was a proven thing. everything that has happened at wake has happened before. in [Redacted]'s career. ok, maybe he has added a few exclamation points but there were many of us that saw this coming. it's his career resume but worse. i am amazed he manged it.
3) F. U. Ron.

 

[RangersboysWFBB]

I posted this before the NC State Game and for the record I was for the banner and criticism of Grobe. but I agree, we stand here today as a result of the BZZ affect.

Honestly, this all a result of the BZ affect. BZ has been so bad that it caused the fan base to turn to the AD...then start to really analyze the AD...then get fed up with the AD's abhorrent disregard for fans ...then even start to become critical of the AD's other hires, and fires, then they looked at all his hires- even ones that typically go unnoticed like Mr. Casstevens, and today we've finally included the most heralded coach in our Athletic Department.

If B-ball were fine nobody would really care about Grobe. sure, people would be disenfranchised about maybe the offensive scheme or whatever, but there damn sure would not be a banner flying over a game or article written to cover it, and shed light on his failures.

If this continues I imagined more scorched earth policy from our fanbase which I endorse FWIW. But eventually people are going to want to know, and I mean really want to know and not just speculate how empty stadiums, lack of publicity, and a disenfranchised alumni affects MSD. Are these people (BZ Wellman Grobe...Hatch....out of touch BOT etc) actually hurting Wake Forest? At that point, if people are armed with concrete numbers and objective facts, then the aptly named firing squad will probably turn on Hatch and the BOT. just my $0.02

 

[Ball State Deac]

Good read. Thanks.

 

[Strattocaster]

I posted this before the NC State Game and for the record I was for the banner and criticism of Grobe. but I agree, we stand here today as a result of the BZZ affect.

Honestly, this all a result of the BZ affect. BZ has been so bad that it caused the fan base to turn to the AD...then start to really analyze the AD...then get fed up with the AD's abhorrent disregard for fans ...then even start to become critical of the AD's other hires, and fires, then they looked at all his hires- even ones that typically go unnoticed like Mr. Casstevens, and today we've finally included the most heralded coach in our Athletic Department.

If B-ball were fine nobody would really care about Grobe. sure, people would be disenfranchised about maybe the offensive scheme or whatever, but there damn sure would not be a banner flying over a game or article written to cover it, and shed light on his failures.

If this continues I imagined more scorched earth policy from our fanbase which I endorse FWIW. But eventually people are going to want to know, and I mean really want to know and not just speculate how empty stadiums, lack of publicity, and a disenfranchised alumni affects MSD. Are these people (BZ Wellman Grobe...Hatch....out of touch BOT etc) actually hurting Wake Forest? At that point, if people are armed with concrete numbers and objective facts, then the aptly named firing squad will probably turn on Hatch and the BOT. just my $0.02

This 100%.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TBR]

I feel like I'd be pretty pissed off at Grobe / Lobo right now even if Shaka was going to be on our bench opening night at the Joel. The option debacle was inexcusable and cost us two games and likely a chance at a bowl game. Nikita, Camp, and countless other seniors deserve better. When Lobo is not fired this offseason, it will be as ridiculous as [Redacted] not being fired last March.

Now would that anger carry over to Wellman? Probably not. As is, it's just a further demonstration of the complete lack of standards and accountability in our athletic department. The culture is absolutely rotten.

 

['15 Deac]

I don't really get all the shitting on the poll. Yeah it's flawed, but c'mon it's not like we're Gallup. If you don't read into it too much (read: if you aren't a prick), I think it suggests a simple concept of choosing football or basketball. Yes our basketball expectations should be higher than making the tournament and no basketball success and football's existence are not mutually exclusive, but the general idea is conveyed. It probably wasn't great for a media article because of the possible misconceptions, but someone isn't an idiot for agreeing with the sentiment or for thinking its an acceptable vehicle for showing what Wake fans truly care about.

2006 was awesome, but Wake isn't built for continued success on that level, if even just because of the size of our school. Basketball is another story.

Wake Forest winning a men's national championship in basketball is on a short list of things I want to happen in my lifetime, including marriage, having a family, successful career etc. So yeah, if someone said that would happen but Wake would have to give up its football program, I'd take that deal. Which is the entire point.

 

[PhDeac]

A national championship wasn't the option. The option was simply making the NCAA Tournament which should be a minimum expectation.

 

['15 Deac]

Yeah, I understand that. But wasn't that the sentiment? If so, then we're just arguing over semantics. Which actually is a more valuable argument than many on the boards.

 

[TBR]

A national championship wasn't the option. The option was simply making the NCAA Tournament which should be a minimum expectation.

Making the NCAA every year implies a strong program that will be a championship contender every few years.

 

[PhDeac]

Making the NCAA every year implies a strong program that will be a championship contender every few years.

Which we had not too long ago. That's a long way from actually winning championships. Not worth giving up football for.

 

[scooter84]

Yeah, I understand that. But wasn't that the sentiment? If so, then we're just arguing over semantics. Which actually is a more valuable argument than many on the boards.

A big problem with it was the choices were mutually exclusive. If we went FCS in football we could not be in the ACC. If we dropped out of the ACC, one of the big reasons for our existence as a historically successful basketball program would be gone. We would have to end up in some small conference or in a basketball-only conference - or something? Who knows, because it makes no sense? So we would no longer have any chance of the basketball success that the poll was offering.

If you are going to make a poll at least make it internally consistent.

 

[ProfessorDeac]

The superfans who use this site might have nuanced opinions like those expressed here, but I think most fans are just upset that whenever we're on national tv, we get embarrassed. Many outside of w-s don't even know who wellman is. Winning would fix it for most.

 

[RangersboysWFBB]

The superfans who use this site might have nuanced opinions like those expressed here, but I think most fans are just upset that whenever we're on national tv, we get embarrassed. Many outside of w-s don't even know who wellman is. Winning would fix it for most.

We were down 43-8 to Iona with 7 minutes left to play in the 1st half...most fans have no idea what state Iona is located. Winning would be awesome, but we are not even competitive at this point.

 

[PhDeac]

We were down 43-8 to Iona with 7 minutes left to play in the 1st half...most fans have no idea what state Iona is located. Winning would be awesome, but we are not even competitive at this point.

And the same time as we were completely uncompetitive on national TV against Notre Dame.

 

[thedeacfan]

Instead of citing the OGBoards poll, I would have said something to the effect that while they may not have been conducted in a scientific manner, 4 different polls in 4 different venues totaling thousands of participants each had 85% to 95% voting in favor of firing Jeff [Redacted].

Well I think if the anger is actually over the lack of accountability and reaction to the fan base, then a complete mea culpa in addition to a [Redacted] firing would at least placate a large majority of the fan base right? Or do you think that we're way too far beyond that at this point?

I really think most fans, even on here, would be pretty content if Wellman would just fire [Redacted] and say "gee I messed up guys I'm sorry." I don't think he will ever do this, but if he did (hypothetically) I think it would soothe over a lot of open wounds on here.

I do think we've gone too far. I am primarily a basketball fan although I also love Wake football and going to the Orange Bowl is one of my fondest memories. But because of the way RW mis-managed basketball and in the process revealed himself to be a very dishonest person, I felt a need to look deeper. Now I also know that Wellman's entire tenure as AD has been a colossal failure.

This situation has gotten bigger than basketball. Wake Forest is supposed to be something special. This is not UNC. Wake is supposed to stand for honesty and integrity. The administration hypocritically cites "culture" as the reason for destroying our basketball program while spouting outright lies and hiring a criminal to cover their tracks. There is no way that MSD can claim to be the institution that SHE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, as long as Ron Wellman and Randy Casstevens are employed there. And the fact that those two have not already been fired tells me all I need to know about Nathan Hatch.

 

[Strickland33]

And yet people went even further and said that they would even be willing to go to the FCS for basketball success - well beyond a simple 3-9 season for the foreseeable future. What does that mean then? I mean beyond the fact that these people are idiots?

I agree with Ph on this one. It was a stupid poll, but even stupider, was assigning it any significance beyond the bounds of this board.

Like it or not, BSD represents our fanbase. It's the public face for a lot of critical element that has worked its way from the fringes to the mainstream. Y'all are better than some of the things that have been posted about BuzzOut, WellmanOut, discontent, etc., lately.

I respect the work y'all do, but I don't know why you had to make your point in this way.

 

[sailordeac]

Instead of citing the OGBoards poll, I would have said something to the effect that while they may not have been conducted in a scientific manner, 4 different polls in 4 different venues totaling thousands of participants each had 85% to 95% voting in favor of firing Jeff [Redacted].



I do think we've gone too far. I am primarily a basketball fan although I also love Wake football and going to the Orange Bowl is one of my fondest memories. But because of the way RW mis-managed basketball and in the process revealed himself to be a very dishonest person, I felt a need to look deeper. Now I also know that Wellman's entire tenure as AD has been a colossal failure.

This situation has gotten bigger than basketball. Wake Forest is supposed to be something special. This is not UNC. Wake is supposed to stand for honesty and integrity. The administration hypocritically cites "culture" as the reason for destroying our basketball program while spouting outright lies and hiring a criminal to cover their tracks. There is no way that MSD can claim to be the institution that SHE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, as long as Ron Wellman and Randy Casstevens are employed there. And the fact that those two have not already been fired tells me all I need to know about Nathan Hatch.

Excellent post. Nothing refutes the culture argument more than the very behavior of Ron Wellman. Is the culture only for the athletes, students and the fans but not for the administration? Right now what we have is not culture but just plain hypocrisy. As far as Hatch is concerned, up to now he has said and done nothing. This means he approves of what Wellman has done; or he does not care; or he disapproves but is still waiting to make the necessary moves. The first two options are simply unacceptable by any decent standards of responsibility and the third is rapidly reaching the stage of becoming almost as unacceptable as the first two. President Hatch neeeds to take action not because the basketball coach is a loser but because his AD has been utterly irresponsible and unaccountable. Everytime he opens his mouth, Wellman embarrasses the university even more.