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Evolution, Creation, and You

Pick the statement that describes you best

  • I subscribe to the theories of the big bang and evolution.

    Votes: 52 61.9%

  • I subscribe to a creation theory, or something close, as well as evolution.

    Votes: 19 22.6%

  • I believe in creation, but not evolution.

    Votes: 5 6.0%

  • Some other version of this, please specify.

    Votes: 8 9.5%
  • Total voters
    84
Wrangor said:
Yes. Without a doubt. "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" - Jesus. We don't have to be good to go to heaven...thank goodness. The thief on the cross was an awful human being, but he put his faith in Jesus when he was confronted with the reality of the Gospel. So there is no doubt in my mind if my two children refuse to accept Jesus as their Savior then they will spend eternity without him (ie: hell).
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thanks for answer
 
Grew up in a church like Wrangor's. Almost became an atheist in college because the cognitive dissonance was simply too much. I was not, and am not, prepared to believe in a God that set up the entire observable universe in a way that tricks us into believing that it is really old when in fact it is 6,000 years old, and then conditions our salvation on believing in something that all evidence of our senses tells us is false. What kind of a God is that? "Haha! Gotcha! Now go to Hell!"

Luckily, I found the Episcopal Church (Rev Deac's denomination) which does not teach that we have to reject science to go to heaven.
 
"I made him just and right,
Sufficient to have stood, though free to fall."
 
Deacon923 said:
Grew up in a church like Wrangor's. Almost became an atheist in college because the cognitive dissonance was simply too much. I was not, and am not, prepared to believe in a God that set up the entire observable universe in a way that tricks us into believing that it is really old when in fact it is 6,000 years old, and then conditions our salvation on believing in something that all evidence of our senses tells us is false. What kind of a God is that? "Haha! Gotcha! Now go to Hell!"

Luckily, I found the Episcopal Church (Rev Deac's denomination) which does not teach that we have to reject science to go to heaven.
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Right. Think about what sort of God that implies - a bored one that creates in order to give us a true/false quiz? No thanks.
 
Wish there were more like RevDeac06 in churches across this country.
 
nascar-pastor-thanks-god-for-smoking-hot-wife.jpg
 
RevDeac06 said:
Right. Think about what sort of God that implies - a bored one that creates in order to give us a true/false quiz? No thanks.
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Rev, I'd be curious to hear if your views on this extend to the New Testament, and particularly the virgin birth, miracles, incarnation, and, ultimately, resurrection of Jesus.
 
Junebug said:
Rev, I'd be curious to hear if your views on this extend to the New Testament, and particularly the virgin birth, miracles, incarnation, and, ultimately, resurrection of Jesus.
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I would too. Especially the incarnation and resurrection.
 
Junebug said:
Rev, I'd be curious to hear if your views on this extend to the New Testament, and particularly the virgin birth, miracles, incarnation, and, ultimately, resurrection of Jesus.
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Wrangor said:
I would too. Especially the incarnation and resurrection.
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Yes, they extend to the NT as well. So my views boil down to this- Creation didn't end on the (non-literal) seventh day, it continues today. I also don't view God as existing outside the realm of the universe, but rather within and without it. I mean, if God is the source of all being, then why can't you also be bigger than being itself? So that sort of addresses miracles, it's not so much that God reaches a hand into the universe to change something, but rather God is a constant force. That being said, I think that God limits Godself to the laws of physics (which we, of course, don't fully understand). I tend to think miracles are in the eye of the beholder- the birth of a child can be a miracle, but so can a cure from cancer, and so can the feeding of 5,000 (whether through physical duplication or inspiring sharing). I know next to nothing about quantum physics (so TW or others feel free to refine/counter), but my understanding of concepts such as the Butterfly Effect is that causation isn't as linear as we'd like to think. And if God is an actor in the ongoing Creation of being, then there is "space" for God to act as well. Hope this section makes sense, let me know if it doesn't.

Virgin Birth: I don't think it makes a difference, as I don't view sin as something that is "passed down" through sperm and that we need a sinless specimen to be a sacrificial lamb. If I had to put money on it, I borrow a line from NT Wright (I think)- "I believe that God could arrange for a Virgin Birth if he wanted to, but I very much doubt that he did."

Incarnation- Yes, I do think Jesus is one in the same as YHWH- the God of Israel and the Creator of all that is. Again, I think this is possible regarding my view on God's agency/presence within Creation.

Resurrection- I don't believe in the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, but then again, neither do the gospel accounts. Jesus clearly is some sort of new reality (that's why it's called the Resurrection and the not Resuscitation)- he has elements of flesh and elements of a ghost. It's something different entirely. The physical vs spiritual debate on the Resurrection is a false dichotomy. While I disagree with his premise and conclusion, I think Bart Ehrman actually has some good ideas on this. He speaks of Jesus being glorified through the Cross and ascends to "the right hand of the Father" through the Crucifixion. Once you're at the right hand of the Father, making a few appearances from Heaven really isn't a big accomplishment, I mean, you're the Lord of the universe at that point. I fully believe that Jesus was Resurrected, but I think the insistence that it has to be bodily is misinformed.
 
SC DEAC said:
Wish there were more like RevDeac06 in churches across this country.
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Not all Episcopal priests are solid on theology, but my views really are in line with fairly normal (perhaps a bit more developed and thought out) Episcopal theology. Give it a shot.
 
I genuinely believe that I may not have turned my back entirely on church if there were more Revs in the world who would encourage me to ask really tough questions instead of stymieing me at every turn.

I remember I had a question at a 7th grade youth group meeting that was basically "Did Gandhi go to Hell?" answered with "THAT'S NOT AN APPROPRIATE QUESTION CHRIS."
 
TownieDeac said:
I genuinely believe that I may not have turned my back entirely on church if there were more Revs in the world who would encourage me to ask really tough questions instead of stymieing me at every turn.

I remember I had a question at a 7th grade youth group meeting that was basically "Did Gandhi go to Hell?" answered with "THAT'S NOT AN APPROPRIATE QUESTION CHRIS."
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Sorry to hear that- never too late if you want to give it a shot. Also, I'm in Gboro, shoot me a PM if you're local and would want to meet to discuss anything.
 
SC DEAC said:
Wish there were more like RevDeac06 in churches across this country.
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Well, that's what you get in an era where distractions leave a person little time to examine "truths" and even less time to tell them. A very poor trade was made and the likes Ralph Waldo Emerson and Cotton Mather were benched in favor of Jimmy Swaggert and Jerry Falwell.

I suppose we have to "suffer the little ones" to come unto Him.
 
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