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Partial deal reached with Iran

TownieDeac said:
So let's take your example and ignore the nuclear ramifications here. While I don't necessarily think that either the US or Iran is a perfect or good faith actor in these discussions, do you think if this agreement would have fallen through it would have done more to help or harm Western relations with Iran? This is a path to fewer sanctions and more openness, no?
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Nuclear ramifications? Stop treading bro. Iran isn't going to drop the bomb on anyone anytime soon. They're oligarch leadership is fat and happy and wants nothing to do with a nuclear holocaust. And Bebe is just being the neo-con he keeps getting elected to be. Power is a hell of a drug. Nobody is starting WWIII.

Now regional Sunni/Shia proxy wars? That shit is real. Unfortunately the short term answer is probably going to have to be containment. Let them fight over Allah and only intervene when it's gets out of hand (i.e. IS) and avoid nation building at all cost. No more Iraq or Afghanistans. I don't think it would be the worst thing ever to passively allow a large chunk of the area revert back to tribalism. A lot of those countries make no fucking sense.
 
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My personal take (#hottakes) is that this deal is probably about the best we were going to get. I don't have a huge issue with it. I am not certain it is going to be effective, but the same could be said by walking out. Damned if you do, damned if you don't in a lot of ways. We have international consensus (although I do think we were the main proponent of this) and it does make some nice gains. Probably not everything we hoped for, but not a total waste. I expect Congress to vote against it, Obama to veto that vote, and then the treaty will go into play.
 
sailordeac said:
I see you have not run out of straw to build strawmen and then throw bullshit at them. You must have a big spread there fella. ;)
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I'm just an unfrozen caveman lawyer. Your nuance and participation trophies frighten and confuse me. I know nothing of your modern era inventions and sensitivities. But I do know this...

When a couple of harmless fat protestants from Indiana didn't want to bake a cake for a gay couple, the indignation was a'flowin'. Protests. Boycotts. Private sector economic sanctions and embargo, if you will. And the people rejoiced.

But when the Iranian regime throws gay people off of roofs to their deaths, you guys choose to lift the economic sanctions and give them the bomb. Because Obama.
 
BillBrasky said:
So the Russian negotiators leave their national interests at the door when they enter these talks? I would like confirmation that you are actually suggesting this.
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Does every other country involved? That's pretty much the definition of negotiations.
 
jhmd2000 said:
But when the Iranian regime throws gay people off of roofs to their deaths, you guys choose to lift the economic sanctions and give them the bomb. Because Obama.
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That's ISIS.

But I'm sure you already knew that because you're super informed.


This is not to say that how Iran treats their LGBT citizens is at all acceptable. But neither is how Saudi Arabia treats theirs and plenty of Presidents from both parties treated that country much nicer than putting economic sanctions on Iran in order to get them to stop enriching uranium to the levels where they could be weaponized.
 
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ONW said:
Does every other country involved? That's pretty much the definition of negotiations.
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Agreed. So what actually got traded so that Iran would move their nuclear weapon program from the secret to the super secret location. That's what I want to know.

But hey guys y'all throw a party and certain world leaders can add this to their resume. Because ACCOMPLISHMENT!
 
BillBrasky said:
Agreed. So what actually got traded so that Iran would move their nuclear weapon program from the secret to the super secret location. That's what I want to know.

But hey guys y'all throw a party and certain world leaders can add this to their resume. Because ACCOMPLISHMENT!
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Explain please.
 
BillBrasky said:
Agreed. So what actually got traded so that Iran would move their nuclear weapon program from the secret to the super secret location. That's what I want to know.

But hey guys y'all throw a party and certain world leaders can add this to their resume. Because ACCOMPLISHMENT!
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What do you think all six countries did, seriously?
 
If it's to move ManU and Tottenham to Tehran, that sounds reasonable.
 
deacvision7 said:
Explain please.
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Every other situation that the countries involved could use in order to gain leverage. I have suspicions that the West (aka the US) gave away far more than is being reported. Mainly because of the amount of political capital that Kerry (and to a lesser extent Obama) put into this. Kerry has failed at everything he's tried to do as SOS. So he put all of his marbles in this basket. And that worries me.

Anyways I'm done. It's 2 AM here and I have to teach in the morning.

In all honesty I hope this is a landmark deal. But I severely doubt it.
 
deacvision7 said:
That's ISIS.

But I'm sure you already knew that because you're super informed.


This is not to say that how Iran treats their LGBT citizens is at all acceptable. But neither is how Saudi Arabia treats theirs and plenty of Presidents from both parties treated that country much nicer than putting economic sanctions on Iran in order to get them to stop enriching uranium to the levels where they could be weaponized.
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I can't believe I confused which band of Islamic crazies was tossing gay people off of roofs to their deaths, and which was merely hanging them and/or stoning them. Imagine the egg on my face when you keenly pointed out it was ISIS that threw humans off of roofs and Iran only hangs and stones them. Don't I feel like a fool or what? I take back my opposition to their inclusion in the world marketplace and nuclear club. Huzzah, Mullah.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/12/iran-s-new-gay-executions.html
 
jhmd2000 said:
I can't believe I confused which band of Islamic crazies was tossing gay people off of roofs to their deaths, and which was merely hanging them and/or stoning them. Imagine the egg on my face when you keenly pointed out it was ISIS that threw humans off of roofs and Iran only hangs and stones them. Don't I feel like a fool or what? I take back my opposition to their inclusion in the world marketplace and nuclear club. Huzzah, Mullah.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/12/iran-s-new-gay-executions.html
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"This is not to say that how Iran treats their LGBT citizens is at all acceptable."



Maybe do a quick google search to make sure you know what you're talking about next time? That's a free tip.

ETA:
And Saudi Arabia has beheaded gay people. Are you proposing that the United States stop interacting with countries with atrocious human rights records? Or were you just trying to defeat that well made straw man of yours about the anti-gay bigots in Indiana?

And Americans should feel more shame about anti-gay bigotry in our country than in countries in the Middle East, even if our own anti-gay bigots don't do nearly as much harm to gay people than what goes on in Iran or Saudi Arabia. America is better than that and shouldn't be judged against countries that have not socially evolved to a point of accepting people for who they are.
 
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The Saudis have to be pretty fucking pissed about all of this, right?
 
deacvision7 said:
"This is not to say that how Iran treats their LGBT citizens is at all acceptable."



Maybe do a quick google search to make sure you know what you're talking about next time? That's a free tip.

ETA:
And Saudi Arabia has beheaded gay people. Are you proposing that the United States stop interacting with countries with atrocious human rights records? Or were you just trying to defeat that well made straw man of yours about the anti-gay bigots in Indiana?

And Americans should feel more shame about anti-gay bigotry in our country than in countries in the Middle East, even if our own anti-gay bigots don't do nearly as much harm to gay people than what goes on in Iran or Saudi Arabia. America is better than that and shouldn't be judged against countries that have not socially evolved to a point of accepting people for who they are.
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Indeed, America is much better than that and we should not trust countries who can't figure out how not to put gay people to death with nuclear weapons. You keep this up and you might back into a correct answer.
 
Do we have a date set upon which we are giving Iran the bomb? I couldn't find it in any of the news sources. What kind of ceremony should we expect?
 
BDL said:
The Saudis have to be pretty fucking pissed about all of this, right?
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Meh fuck 'em. They're direct and indirect funding of Sunni radicals is very much responsible for the lack of leverage that the U.S/Israeli/Saudi/Qataris have at this point.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Indeed, America is much better than that and we should not trust countries who can't figure out how not to put gay people to death with nuclear weapons. You keep this up and you might back into a correct answer.
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North Korea has nuclear weapons and haven't done shit with them -- other than minor saber rattling with missile tests.


Oh, and this deal walks back Iran's ability to make a nuclear weapon, if they hold up their end of the bargain. But that is the risk inherent in every treaty/compromise/etc. The other side remaining true to their word. But if they do it, then Iran doesn't have uranium enriched enough to be weaponized for over a decade. That's surely better than them having one in 3 months, right?
 
BDL said:
The Saudis have to be pretty fucking pissed about all of this, right?
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