Jim Grobe to Illinois?

[liveanddiedeac]

For bkf and any others doubting that change is possible in college football
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/new-wo...-oklahoma-take-back-seat-032029601-ncaaf.html

If Baylor can ascend into an elite program, I don't see why it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Wake.

Robo bkf response: " You're an idiot for thinking LOWF has the resources of Baylor with all that evil republican oil money. Jim Grobe should be enshrined in gold for accomplishing something at Wake Forest that can and never will happen again, I know it and you know it. Crap, I've soiled my Depends again!"

 

[WFU Lurker]

Couple of random thoughts:

1. I think RW gets too much credit for bringing about the end of the Grobe tenure. I have no idea what really went down but I find it much easier to believe that Grobe told RW it was time rather than the other way around.

2. A new athletic director will do wonders for attitudes like bkf's. New leadership and fresh ideas are badly needed, and that will reinvigorate the fans.

Given the inflow of donations shortly after Grobe resigned, I suspect neither made the choice.

 

[coredeac]

For bkf and any others doubting that change is possible in college football
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/new-wo...-oklahoma-take-back-seat-032029601-ncaaf.html

If Baylor can ascend into an elite program, I don't see why it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Wake.

I think it can certainly happen. However, it would need to begin at the institutional level. Wake would require a president and board that makes revenue athletic sports a top priority. This would obviously filter down to admissions. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Until this type of fundamental change occurs, I think we just continue confirming the definition of insanity by doing the same thing and expecting different results.

It can happen at a Wake. But it must happen at the top of the house. Just like with any corporation or major enterprise. It starts at the top!

 

[Complacent Deac]

Grobe was a really good coach (duh). Final few years of bad recruiting and nepotism (or whatever that was with Lobo) caught up to him.

 

[scooter84]

I think it can certainly happen. However, it would need to begin at the institutional level. Wake would require a president and board that makes revenue athletic sports a top priority. This would obviously filter down to admissions. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Until this type of fundamental change occurs, I think we just continue confirming the definition of insanity by doing the same thing and expecting different results.

It can happen at a Wake. But it must happen at the top of the house. Just like with any corporation or major enterprise. It starts at the top!

I disagree that having a solid, competitive, even excellent football program at Wake would require any substantial changes to our admissions policies. Sure, maybe it makes it a little tougher but it certainly can be done. There are plenty of good players out there that would be acceptable admissions at Wake under the current policy - the problem is getting more of them to come here. And then the problem is making sure we have football coaches that can teach them and develop them and plug them into a successfully designed scheme.
I'm confident that we are moving in that direction. Whether we will get all the way there remains to be seen.

And, BKF and others saying it can't be done at Wake is just dumb. Of course it can be done. It will be difficult and who knows whether it will happen - but it can.

 

[coredeac]

I disagree that having a solid, competitive, even excellent football program at Wake would require any substantial changes to our admissions policies. Sure, maybe it makes it a little tougher but it certainly can be done. There are plenty of good players out there that would be acceptable admissions at Wake under the current policy - the problem is getting more of them to come here. And then the problem is making sure we have football coaches that can teach them and develop them and plug them into a successfully designed scheme.
I'm confident that we are moving in that direction. Whether we will get all the way there remains to be seen.

And, BKF and others saying it can't be done at Wake is just dumb. Of course it can be done. It will be difficult and who knows whether it will happen - but it can.

Then we'll agree to disagree. Because until our staff can get kids into school who are on an athletic level with the competition, things won't change much. They just won't.

 

[wsc8521s]

We're recruiting better players than Grobe did according to almost all rankings. It's just a matter of if Clawson can get them to perform at a level high enough to get us to the magical 8-9 win mark. As always, it comes down to coaching.

And if Clawson can't win at that level, the possibility exists we could find someone who can -- lots of up-and-comers would love the Wake gig if for no other reason than a stepping stone to the real big time. Coaching at Vandy certainly didn't hurt James Franklin's prospects.

 

[WFUWaldo]

Not to make this thread into Baylor, but they have a lot of natural football advantages over Wake.

 

[GoDeacsGo]

I think it can certainly happen. However, it would need to begin at the institutional level. Wake would require a president and board that makes revenue athletic sports a top priority. This would obviously filter down to admissions. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Until this type of fundamental change occurs, I think we just continue confirming the definition of insanity by doing the same thing and expecting different results.

It can happen at a Wake. But it must happen at the top of the house. Just like with any corporation or major enterprise. It starts at the top!

I'm not disagreeing with you but what additional things would the school need to do? I see a lot of large schools have massive locker rooms with lots of amenities but the smaller one at Wake seem to fit it's size. Other than signing a "big name" coach, what changes would you need to see?

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Not to make this thread into Baylor, but they have a lot of natural football advantages over Wake.

While I don't disagree with that and maybe Baylor has a higher ceiling because of it, still Baylor was dumpster program a decade ago. When we scheduled the home and home with then for the 07 and 09 seasons (I think), it was looked like a couple of easy wins for us. It was in 07, but by the time 09 came around Baylor was starting to rise and have just kept rising. Point is, there can be a program that is competitive and consistently in the post season at Wake, it just takes the right coach and the right administration. I think we've got the right coach, the jury is obviously still out on Clawson, but I really like what he is about. Our problem is the administration. I think Wellman needs to go and someone brought in that's not going to be Hatch's lap dog. I'm not saying the school sacrifices integrity, but some changes need to be made if Wake Forest is truly going to compete.

 

[TownieDeac]

We want to become Baylor football now?

 

[sailordeac]

i don't think the current administration, either academic or athletic, has enough of a commitment to revenue sports, or to sports in general, to seriously improve our performances on the field. They may improve from time to time but that wont be because of either Hatch's or Wellman's efforts. These two gentlemen appear to be primarily focused on getting money, either through contributions or through raised tuitions. The sports profile on the whole has been sinking pretty much since Hatch arrived. The academic profile on the other hand has not changed much and appears to be stagnating. That's the record folks. Significant change, either athletic or academic, is unlikely to happen as long as they are in charge at MSD.

 

[coredeac]

I'm not disagreeing with you but what additional things would the school need to do? I see a lot of large schools have massive locker rooms with lots of amenities but the smaller one at Wake seem to fit it's size. Other than signing a "big name" coach, what changes would you need to see?

Players. You need lots of really, really good players to field a top-shelf football program consistently. It's purely a numbers game. Unless you can sign a 4-star and, maybe on occasion, a 5-star to line-up across from your opponent's 4 and 5 star athletes, you'll never be at an elite level consistently.
You can hire Nick Saban and build a domed stadium (with monorail) and it won't matter until you can get 30-40 guys to play the other team's 30-40 guys.

And that's not going to happen on the current admin's watch. It just isn't. Now, unlike BKF, I think it can be changed but it must be from the top. Hiring a big-name coach isn't going to solve the problem. Might bring in a few more 4 stars but he'll still be fighting the admin over other players and no high profile coach wants to spend 7x24 pleading with Hatch and Martha Allman for every scrap they can get. By the way, I think we have a great coach. He just needs 100% support to field a team that can compete for championships. I hope he is now receiving that. I highly doubt that he is.

I accept it for what it is. Will always pull hard for the Deacs. But talking about bringing back legacies and cutting down nets is like picking out curtains when you can't afford the house. We need to start working on the foundation first and that begins with a fundamental commitment to big-time sports. Until then, GO DEACS!!

 

[D4L]

That's delusional.

Grobe was fired. Everything that happened after that was lipstick on a pig.

 

[wsc8521s]

There is a big difference between becoming what Baylor is and what Vandy was under Franklin or even a slightly-improved version of what Duke is under Cutcliffe. I'd be fine with either of the two latter options, and I think it's definitely attainable

 

[scooter84]

i don't think the current administration, either academic or athletic, has enough of a commitment to revenue sports, or to sports in general, to seriously improve our performances on the field. They may improve from time to time but that wont be because of either Hatch's or Wellman's efforts. These two gentlemen appear to be primarily focused on getting money, either through contributions or through raised tuitions. The sports profile on the whole has been sinking pretty much since Hatch arrived. The academic profile on the other hand has not changed much and appears to be stagnating. That's the record folks. Significant change, either athletic or academic, is unlikely to happen as long as they are in charge at MSD.

I hear the bolded term all the time but I am not sure I understand what it means - in concrete terms. What changes need to happen for them to show such a commitment? We have made significant investments in facilities over the last few years, and continue to do so. We seem to pay competitive salaries to our coaches. It's not that I necessarily disagree with the sentiment, I am just not sure what they should be doing.

The only thing I have seen mentioned is changes to admissions policies - so is this really code for saying we need to start admitting more athletes with marginal academic records? If that is the case, as I have said before, I disagree.

What else can the administration do to exhibit this commitment to success in the revenue sports?

 

[RazorWFU]

Translation: If BKF and sd3 are on one side of things, lay all your money the other way.

Also, BKF using Duke's record from the '40s-60s as a defense of them being a better program than us may be the dumbest thing he's ever posted

Pretty much. Just another delusional old man who refuses to believe that times have changed.

I also believe that Clawson's resume before Wake was better than Grobe's.

I still think bkf is just a gimmick poster (it is very telling that bfk is nowhere to be seen when he is proven wrong time and time again. classic parody poster move) who is laughing his ass off over a computer screen. If he isn't, then he must be one miserable SOB.

 

[GoDeacsGo]

Players. You need lots of really, really good players to field a top-shelf football program consistently. It's purely a numbers game. Unless you can sign a 4-star and, maybe on occasion, a 5-star to line-up across from your opponent's 4 and 5 star athletes, you'll never be at an elite level consistently.
You can hire Nick Saban and build a domed stadium (with monorail) and it won't matter until you can get 30-40 guys to play the other team's 30-40 guys.

And that's not going to happen on the current admin's watch. It just isn't. Now, unlike BKF, I think it can be changed but it must be from the top. Hiring a big-name coach isn't going to solve the problem. Might bring in a few more 4 stars but he'll still be fighting the admin over other players and no high profile coach wants to spend 7x24 pleading with Hatch and Martha Allman for every scrap they can get. By the way, I think we have a great coach. He just needs 100% support to field a team that can compete for championships. I hope he is now receiving that. I highly doubt that he is.

I accept it for what it is. Will always pull hard for the Deacs. But talking about bringing back legacies and cutting down nets is like picking out curtains when you can't afford the house. We need to start working on the foundation first and that begins with a fundamental commitment to big-time sports. Until then, GO DEACS!!

I would imagine we DO try to recruit 4-5 star players, as does every team in the nation. Still not sure specifically what you want done differently.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

I hear the bolded term all the time but I am not sure I understand what it means - in concrete terms. What changes need to happen for them to show such a commitment? We have made significant investments in facilities over the last few years, and continue to do so. We seem to pay competitive salaries to our coaches. It's not that I necessarily disagree with the sentiment, I am just not sure what they should be doing.

The only thing I have seen mentioned is changes to admissions policies - so is this really code for saying we need to start admitting more athletes with marginal academic records? If that is the case, as I have said before, I disagree.

What else can the administration do to exhibit this commitment to success in the revenue sports?

The problem with the facility upgrades were that they was so overdue, that they are only getting us to position of having adequate facilities, not excellent facilities. The stadium upgrades were long overdue and really not a help that much to recruiting. The on-campus upgrades have been needed for an even longer time and may have an impact on recruiting, but nothing most other schools can't offer.

The JUCO policy has never made sense to me, as I understand it we can only take a JUCO if they would've qualified out of high school, but if a kid goes JUCO, makes good grades and can help on the field, why not take them. If they come and make the grades, who cares if they would not have qualified out of high school, if not cut them loose, they got a chance at least.

 

[LilburnDeac]

I don't know how long he will decide to stay here, but I would really be surprised if Clawson will ever had a single winning season at WF (that's 7-5 or better). He might scratch out a 6-6 or two....but only if he loads up on crap OOC games. You're going to see a lot of 2-6 & 3-5 ACC records. And there is a better chance of a 1-7 than there is of a 4-4.

Did you feel the same about Jim Grobe's chances when he was hired?

And every Wake coach since Chuck Mills has had at least one winning season. And all except Al Groh went to a bowl game.