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Paris

MysteryMen said:
I mean no more of a concern than Christian law currently is....The public doesn't seem to be too concerned about that
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So is there anything in Sharia Law that concerns you? Can you be a good Muslim and not follow Sharia Law?
 
Deacs89 said:
So is there anything in Sharia Law that concerns you? Can you be a good Muslim and not follow Sharia Law?
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Honor killings are just a really delayed onset form of being pro choice.
 
Deacs89 said:
So is there anything in Sharia Law that concerns you? Can you be a good Muslim and not follow Sharia Law?
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That's not really what he's saying. I don't think it's fair that the assumption of Islamic practice in the United States is wholesale, monolithic, rigid adherence. That's not a reality for the way most people practice religion. Can you be a good Christian if you have to work on Sunday? Can you be a good Jew and work at a hotdog stand?

jhmd2000 said:
Honor killings are just a really delayed onset form of being pro choice.
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Not even worth acknowledging, but I can't help myself, do you think that honor killings will be allowed in America? Do you honestly see a scenario where that's a reality?
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
Anonymous claims they have evidence of more attacks planned for Sunday including here in the United States, where you might ask? WWE survivor series, the perfect place to see if people with guns do stop terrorists.
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Looks like Anonymous get played by ISIS. Brussels essentially has been on lock down for days without a major terrorist attack. US embassy advised Anerican citizens to avoid being outside in Paris and Brussels over the weekend.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
what do we do if Verizon or Chase or Comcast or any other everydaylife behemoth decides to insert "Biblical" or "Sharia Arbitration" into their contracts?
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I believe it would be fully enforceable against the consumer in most cases. That's probably what it would take to wake up some legislators to realize that allowing these companies to force all their customers to resolve disputes behind closed doors with company-paid arbitrators might not be the best policy.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
That's not really what he's saying. I don't think it's fair that the assumption of Islamic practice in the United States is wholesale, monolithic, rigid adherence. That's not a reality for the way most people practice religion. Can you be a good Christian if you have to work on Sunday? Can you be a good Jew and work at a hotdog stand?



Not even worth acknowledging, but I can't help myself, do you think that honor killings will be allowed in America? Do you honestly see a scenario where that's a reality?
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I think we can safely assume that a private contract requiring someone to be killed or maimed would be void as against public policy.

I am not even remotely a Sharia expert. From the little I know about Sharia, the parts that could conceivably be implemented in a private contract would be things like the prohibition on charging interest and other financial rules, and maybe some kind of religious arbitration concept. You can't sign a private contract to create your own criminal code (chopping off hands, eye for an eye, etc.) and have it enforced by US courts.

The financial and business parts of sharia are really interesting, if you have time to waste it's worth looking up how banks and lending operate in the Middle East to be sharia-compliant.
 
Yeah, the only way Sharia law would be able to operate in the United States is in the same way that other religious law is allowed to operate - by private contract in cases where it doesn't involve criminal conduct or other conduct that is against public policy. Which, you know, seems right given that whole First Amendment thing.

I'm fine taking issue with the use of religious law at all in solving legal disputes, but to single out Sharia is silly and discriminatory. It reduces your argument essentially to "our religious law is better than your religious law," which isn't a position the government is allowed to take
 
ImTheCaptain said:
I love this argument.

"yep, just stop using credit cards and cellphones or Google if you don't like the EULA!"
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I am confident that if the big players in any market started requiring arbitration provisions calling for application of sharia law, competitors without such a requirement would pop up quickly and soon dominate the market.
 
sure, but my point is that arbitration agreements are dangerous for consumers, period. I don't' want to Book of Mormon a britration any more than Quaker arbitration
 
MysteryMen said:
Yeah, the only way Sharia law would be able to operate in the United States is in the same way that other religious law is allowed to operate - by private contract in cases where it doesn't involve criminal conduct or other conduct that is against public policy. Which, you know, seems right given that whole First Amendment thing.

I'm fine taking issue with the use of religious law at all in solving legal disputes, but to single out Sharia is silly and discriminatory. It reduces your argument essentially to "our religious law is better than your religious law," which isn't a position the government is allowed to take
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I don't know much about sharia law from a non-criminal standpoint, But if it is anything like its criminal counterpart (I.e., calls for hands to be chopped off, etc.) then it might be that sharia law would violate the public policy of the United States whereas the application of Christian principles would not.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
sure, but my point is that arbitration agreements are dangerous for consumers, period. I don't' want to Book of Mormon a britration any more than Quaker arbitration
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And my point is that, while you may be stuck with an arbitration provision, you are not going to be stuck with one calling for application of any religious law. The market isn't going to allow that.
 
Junebug said:
And my point is that, while you may be stuck with an arbitration provision, you are not going to be stuck with one calling for application of any religious law. The market isn't going to allow that.
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#InTheMarketWeTrust
 
Junebug said:
Liberalism and xenophobia make strange bedfellows.
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Conservative nativism and xenophobia have alienated social conservatives from other races and religions who would likely vote Republican.
 
Junebug said:
I don't know much about sharia law from a non-criminal standpoint, But if it is anything like its criminal counterpart (I.e., calls for hands to be chopped off, etc.) then it might be that sharia law would violate the public policy of the United States whereas the application of Christian principles would not.
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Right, but all that would mean is that the parts that are criminal or against public policy would not be enforced. Not that the entire body of law would be thrown out
 
Junebug said:
And my point is that, while you may be stuck with an arbitration provision, you are not going to be stuck with one calling for application of any religious law. The market isn't going to allow that.
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Well that would depend on the assumption that people are reading the 100+ term form contracts they are given for everyday transactions, which is a horrible assumption. I agree that you are never going to have widespread religious law terms, but it also seems pretty easy for a consumer to get stuck with one. Would you assume that in renting a vacation house in the North Carolina mountains, the contract you're signing is going to mandate use of Christian law?

I also wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that the market will work to protect consumers in this context. If a certain type of arbitration is favorable to companies, they will all adopt it and not leave the consumer with any choice.

In fact it's already happening. Companies have adopted the widespread use of class arbitration waiver provisions that effectively make it cost-prohibitive for you to adjudicate your disputes with them. There is no way for me to get a cell phone plan without agreeing to one of those provisions
 
MysteryMen said:
Well that would depend on the assumption that people are reading the 100+ term form contracts they are given for everyday transactions, which is a horrible assumption. I agree that you are never going to have widespread religious law terms, but it also seems pretty easy for a consumer to get stuck with one. Would you assume that in renting a vacation house in the North Carolina mountains, the contract you're signing is going to mandate use of Christian law?

I also wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that the market will work to protect consumers in this context. If a certain type of arbitration is favorable to companies, they will all adopt it and not leave the consumer with any choice.

In fact it's already happening. Companies have adopted the widespread use of class arbitration waiver provisions that effectively make it cost-prohibitive for you to adjudicate your disputes with them. There is no way for me to get a cell phone plan without agreeing to one of those provisions
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I am not here debating whether or not the market works with respect to arbitration provisions generally. I am saying that the market will take care of any attempted widespread use of arbitration provisions requiring application of religious law. It is not even fathomable to me that big retailers or service providers would even try. If some entity like hobby lobby did try, the press would be all over it and it would be very easy to avoid.

Given this reality, if you get stuck with an arbitration provision requiring the application of religious law in some po-dunk vacation rental dispute, then that's on you for failing to read the contract before you signed it.
 
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