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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

Wakeforest22890 said:
I don't believe in punishing women for getting an abortion. I think if you want to punish doctors who perform abortions in the third trimester in an illegal manner then go for it.

I already answered that twice above.
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Uh....bro?

Wakeforest22890 said:
Nobody is arguing on here that you should be able to abort at 38 weeks.

The entire ongoing conversation is dealing with a scenario where abortion is illegal and what the punishment for connected parties should be at that point.

Trump apparently believes that the mother should be punished if abortion is illegal and the mother gets one. This is an extreme position for national politicians (even Huckabee and Santorum, the far right bible thumpers, are against this).

The question that was asked to you JHMD was: do you agree with Trump that mothers should be punished if they get abortions and they are illegal? It seems that your answer is yes but it's impossible to tell since you keep trying to criticize "liberals" for being ideologically inconsistent or something.
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So you "can't get one", but there is "no punishment if you do." Sounds to me like you can get one.

That is ideologically inconsistent. Or something.
 
I can imagine JHMD's morning conversations:

"JHMD, do you want some cereal?"

"Honey the hypocrisy of liberals wanting to eat cereal has made me disgusted with society. I equate it to the Holocaust."

"So...is that a yes or no?"
 
jhmd2000 said:
Uh....bro?



That is ideologically inconsistent. Or something.
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I mean are you trolling or can you just not read? I don't think women should be the ones punished. As far as I understand it even before Roe v. Wade was passed, doctors were punished for performing abortions - women were not punished for getting them.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I mean are you trolling or can you just not read? I don't think women should be the ones punished. As far as I understand it even before Roe v. Wade was passed, doctors were punished for performing abortions - women were not punished for getting them.
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I'm the crazy one for thinking that violating the law should have a consequence? This is an intolerable notion to your delicate sensibilities? Off to your safe space...
 
Take it up with the bulk of the Republican party as well. The backlash to Trump's comments were almost unanimous and came from almost every single part of the political spectrum. Hell even Trump, the guy who "doesn't settle" and doesn't walk back anything he does, issued a statement "correcting" what he said/meant earlier. If you want to argue that Huckabee and Santorum should be "sent back to their safe space" due to some sort of "notion to [their] delicate sensibilities" then go for it but I don't think that's going to be taken seriously by anyone.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Take it up with the bulk of the Republican party as well. The backlash to Trump's comments were almost unanimous and came from almost every single part of the political spectrum. Hell even Trump, the guy who "doesn't settle" and doesn't walk back anything he does, issued a statement "correcting" what he said/meant earlier. If you want to argue that Huckabee and Santorum should be "sent back to their safe space" due to some sort of "notion to [their] delicate sensibilities" then go for it but I don't think that's going to be taken seriously by anyone.
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The Law Without a Sanction: A Hitchhikers Guide to Ideological Inconsistency.

In your world, a woman terminates the life of her 39 week old child in a back alley, and she walks because "you can't judge", then? Not to worry, though, because "Nobody's arguing that she should be able to do that", it's just that we won't do anything if she does. Amazing.

R.I.P. Roe v. Wade. Viability no longer a viable line (who's anti-science, again?)
 
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DeaconSig said:
Wrangor, this is what consistency looks like.
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it either is a child or it isn't. If you believe that life begins at conception, then it does.

If you believe that life begins at viability, then it does.

If you don't believe that life occurs by the point of viability (does that make this late arriving crowd "Neo-birthers"?), then you do not agree with the holding of the seminal (sorry...) case on the defining issue of the last 100 years of Supreme Court jurisprudence. Welcome to the extreme.
 
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Wakeforest22890 said:
I can imagine JHMD's morning conversations:

"JHMD, do you want some cereal?"

"Honey the hypocrisy of liberals wanting to eat cereal has made me disgusted with society. I equate it to the Holocaust."

"So...is that a yes or no?"
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My wife, while she shares your profession and point of view, has a little more intellectual and emotional range than you do. Yours may expand with experience.
 
DeaconSig said:
Are there a lot of people on here who suggest that abortion post-viability should be allowed for anything but the health of the mother? Where is the 38-week strawman (straw-fetus?) coming from?
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Here.

RChildress107 said:
oh I don't know, birth maybe. Let's not pretend that going from being inside the womb, totally dependent on another specific human to breathing on your own out in the real world is comparable to crossing the street.

Regardless of whether you think a 39 week old fetus is a person, you can't deny that birth brings about a fundamental change in the existence of that being.
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And here.

Wakeforest22890 said:
I don't believe in punishing women for getting an abortion. I think if you want to punish doctors who perform abortions in the third trimester in an illegal manner then go for it.

I already answered that twice above.
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Because a rule without a sanction isn't a rule.
 
Simple yes or no will suffice:

If abortion is illegal (on the basis that the fetus/baby/child is in fact a person), should women who get abortions be punished the same as a mother who kills her baby after a week?
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Simple yes or no will suffice:

If abortion is illegal (on the basis that the fetus/baby/child is in fact a person), should women who get abortions be punished the same as a mother who kills her baby after a week?
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Yes. Keywords: "kill" & "baby".

Your turn: 39 weeks. Simple yes or no will suffice.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Yes. Keywords: "kill" & "baby".

Your turn: 39 weeks. Simple yes or no will suffice.
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Honestly, I don't know enough about the viability of life/when it begins to answer that question.

I'll answer this way: If scientists have verified that the viability of life begins at 38/39 weeks and that is when a fetus is considered a child, then yes I think that abortion (if illegal) should be considered murder in the same sense that a week old child would be considered murder, and women who get them should be punished consistently under the law that way.

I don't think anybody here has once said that abortions should occur after the third trimester.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Honestly, I don't know enough about the viability of life/when it begins to answer that question.

I'll answer this way: If scientists have verified that the viability of life begins at 38/39 weeks and that is when a fetus is considered a child, then yes I think that abortion (if illegal) should be considered murder in the same sense that a week old child would be considered murder, and women who get them should be punished consistently under the law that way.

I don't think anybody here has once said that abortions should occur after the third trimester.
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So you're saying that fourth trimester abortions are totally off the table? We're getting somewhere...
 
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