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The Presidential Debate

DistrictDeacon said:
So looking at the numbers, the average Wake grad ends up with $16,000 more in loans at the graduation than the UNC grad. I could easily see paying that premium for a smaller school feel, smaller class sizes, and a guarantee that almost all of your classes are going to be taught by professors, instead of TA's.
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I don't follow your math.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
The average Wake student graduates with $34,745 in student loan debt. The average UNC student graduates with $18,945.

http://college-insight.org/#spotlight/go&h=f1e1a4bb940445f8087ac05eabe224cc
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That's comparing apples to oranges and is a meaningless stat. We're talking about the difference in one person's finances depending upon whether he went to WF or UNC....not different people with different financial means at two different schools.

This really should be fairly easy to understand....for a graduate from either school. I'm kind of surprised that you didn't understand that the stat you gave me had nothing to do with the respective costs for attending the two schools. Yeah, you could take a millionaire and he wouldn't owe a penny after graduating from WF or UNC. So what? That doesn't have anything to do with the comparative costs at the two schools.
 
bobknightfan said:
That's comparing apples to oranges and is a meaningless stat. We're talking about the difference in one person's finances depending upon whether he went to WF or UNC....not different people with different financial means at two different schools.

This really should be fairly easy to understand....for a graduate from either school. I'm kind of surprised that you didn't understand that the stat you gave me had nothing to do with the respective costs for attending the two schools. Yeah, you could take a millionaire and he wouldn't owe a penny after graduating from WF or UNC. So what? That doesn't have anything to do with the comparative costs at the two schools.
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You do realize that there are things such as scholarships and grants, right? And a federal form that determines your ability to pay that is the same for both schools?
 
bobknightfan said:
That's comparing apples to oranges and is a meaningless stat. We're talking about the difference in one person's finances depending upon whether he went to WF or UNC....not different people with different financial means at two different schools.

This really should be fairly easy to understand....for a graduate from either school. I'm kind of surprised that you didn't understand that the stat you gave me had nothing to do with the respective costs for attending the two schools. Yeah, you could take a millionaire and he wouldn't owe a penny after graduating from WF or UNC. So what? That doesn't have anything to do with the comparative costs at the two schools.
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How is the amount of debt that a graduate takes on from each respective school "apples to oranges"?
 
I legitimately don't understand the point you are trying to make Bob. I think that Wake Forest, at full price, is certainly overvalued. I don't think anybody should pay $60K to go to college. That's not economically feasible to anybody but the top percentage of the 1%.

What District linked was the average debt that a student from each school graduates with. How is that not an apt comparison to how much each school cost for the average person? On average, Wake Forest has $16K more in loans and debt than the average UNC grad.

Looking at a couple of different websites, it seems the average mid-career salary of a Wake Forest graduate is around $100K, while the average mid-career salary of a North Carolina Graduate is $85K per year. That's $150K different in a 10 year span from age 40-50...or basically $134K in the positive over the average difference in debt owed to begin out of college.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I legitimately don't understand the point you are trying to make Bob. I think that Wake Forest, at full price, is certainly overvalued. I don't think anybody should pay $60K to go to college. That's not economically feasible to anybody but the top percentage of the 1%.

What District linked was the average debt that a student from each school graduates with. How is that not an apt comparison to how much each school cost for the average person?
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more rich kids go to wake and need less debt maybe?
 
DEACisGO said:
more rich kids go to wake and need less debt maybe?
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That is probably true....but it doesn't have anything at all to do with the financial decision that every single potential student has to make when deciding between the two schools as a college choice. The cost of the school is the cost of the school for each individual potential student. How much or how little someone else has to borrow doesn't have anything to do with that person's cost and doesn't affect his decision in any way. So comparing how much debt other people may have at the two schools is meaningless. Each person makes his decision based upon what he has and what he is financially able to do.

Again, I don't see why this is so hard to understand...which is why I didn't feel like trying to explain something that should be so simple to 27.
 
bobknightfan said:
That is probably true....but it doesn't have anything at all to do with the financial decision that every single potential student has to make when deciding between the two schools as a college choice. The cost of the school is the cost of the school for each individual potential student. How much or how little someone else has to borrow doesn't have anything to do with that person's cost and doesn't affect his decision in any way. So comparing how much debt other people may have at the two schools is meaningless. Each person makes his decision based upon what he has and what he is financially able to do.

Again, I don't see why this is so hard to understand...which is why I didn't feel like trying to explain something that should be so simple to 27.
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What in the world are you talking about? Of course that impacts which school somebody is going to.

Even knowing that the average debt is $16K more for somebody attending Wake Forest over UNC could make a difference in what somebody decides to do.

If Wake offers a 75% scholarship and UNC offers a 25% scholarship then that can impact greatly which school somebody chooses.

I'm not being intentionally obtuse or dense. I don't understand the point you are making at all.
 
bobknightfan said:
Yeah. I also know that some people think that hoping to get an inheritance is a retirement plan.
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DistrictDeacon said:
Luckily Wake Forest students don't have to hope. 99% of their financial needs are met by Wake.
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Wake Forest takes care of 99% of its students' retirement needs?

That's a new one on me. I didn't realize that. They didn't take care of any of mine. I had to do it myself.
 
Alright, I'm done engaging you. Pointless. I hope you seek some assistance for your swing over the last year. It's something I would highly suggest you look in to.

Best of luck.
 
I think we've run into another feelings vs facts issue. Bob feels that Wake is outrageously more expensive than UNC, when the facts show that Wake cost about $4000 more per year for those who need student aid.
 
bobknightfan said:
Wake Forest takes care of 99% of its students' retirement needs?

That's a new one on me. I didn't realize that. They didn't take care of any of mine. I had to do it myself.
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What the fuck are you talking about?

And you took care of your retirement by taking advantage of ignorant investors by selling them high fee products when there were other, equal investments out there that would have cost them less, but wouldn't have lined your pockets.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
What in the world are you talking about? Of course that impacts which school somebody is going to.

Even knowing that the average debt is $16K more for somebody attending Wake Forest over UNC could make a difference in what somebody decides to do.

If Wake offers a 75% scholarship and UNC offers a 25% scholarship then that can impact greatly which school somebody chooses.

I'm not being intentionally obtuse or dense. I don't understand the point you are making at all.
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Let's say the cost at WF is $49,000. The cost for an in-state student at UNC is $9,000. If you get a scholarship at WF, how would that lower my cost of going there? You're just assuming the cost would be lowered by getting a scholarship.....but that is hypothetical. The certainty is that the cost at WF is $49,000 and the cost at UNC is $9,000. As I said, some people think that hoping to get an inheritance is a retirement plan. That's like hoping to get a scholarship to lower the cost at WF. Maybe you will, maybe you won't.....but that doesn't change the fact that for students living in North Carolina, going to Wake Forest costs $40,000 more per year than going to UNC.

You are trying to equalize the cost differences by assuming a person is getting a scholarship.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
What the fuck are you talking about?

And you took care of your retirement by taking advantage of ignorant investors by selling them high fee products when there were other, equal investments out there that would have cost them less, but wouldn't have lined your pockets.
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No, what the fuck were you talking about? I made the comment that some people thought hoping to get an inheritance was a retirement plan. Then, in the very next post, you said that "Luckily, Wake Forest students don't have to hope. 99% of their financial needs are met by Wake Forest."

I was talking about retirement plans. That's the post you responded to. I listed both posts in my reply so you could see them together.

Also, you continue to be clueless about my business, my products & my clients. Since I mentioned that a few of my clients had called me with an additional $795K to add to their investments, I had two more to call Wednesday with another $40K. And I emphasize that they called me. I didn't solicit any of that business. Furthermore, there is no sales charge on those investments. All $835K of that money went into their accounts. Every single penny of it. These clients have been dealing with me for close to 20 years. Do you think that if I had been "taking advantage" of them they would still be calling me with additional investments?
 
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