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Biggest Reform EVER passed thread

ConnorEl said:
Pretty sure there has been a lot more than "headlines" put here. But just to please, I'll post some below--if you click on them you can read more than the headline.

Maybe if someone holds an opinion that contrasts with multiple (and a majority of) economists...just maybe...it should be reconsidered.

The Tax Cut Consensus: Will President Trump's tax cuts really grow the economy? Unlikely, experts say.

Tall Tax Tales: The GOP tax plan will benefit the ultra-rich at the expense of middle-class and working Americans.

Most Economists Agree: Trump Tax Plan Will Widen Budget Deficit

Economists Have No Use for Republican Tax Cuts

Independent economists on why they aren't buying Trump's tax plan promise

THE SENATE TAX CUTS AND JOBS ACT (11/9/17): STATIC AND DYNAMIC EFFECTS ON THE BUDGET AND THE ECONOMY--Penn Wharton analysis.

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Key Points

On Thursday November 9th, 2017 the Senate Committee on Finance majority released its version of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that changes both individual and business taxes.

Penn Wharton Budget Model (PWBM) finds that the bill lowers tax revenues by $1.4 to $1.7 trillion over 10 years, including accounting for growth effects. Debt rises by $1.9 to $2.0 trillion over the same period. Looking beyond the 10-year budget window, by 2040, revenue falls between $4.3 trillion and $5.2 trillion while debt increases by $7.0 to $7.6 trillion.

PWBM projects that GDP will be between 0.3% to 0.8% larger in 2027 relative to its value in that year with no policy change, and between -0.2% and 0.5% larger in 2040. Over the long-run, additional debt reduces the positive impact on GDP.
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Republican tax plan slams workers and job creators in favor of the rich and inherited wealth

Some IGM (expert economist) surveys:

Will US GDP will be substantially higher or lower after a decade if proposed reforms are enacted?

Will tax revenue fall? Will the tax cuts pay for themselves with growth?



Etc. ad nauseam.
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Oh, I don't buy into the growth bullshit. I'm just saying alotta people are gonna get a couple hundy a month and that's cool.
 
Cool? Great.

Maybe instead of what's being floated we should raise taxes a bit on the wealthy (or more rich), lower them for everyone else. Probs could make that revenue neutral. Hell, maybe even revenue positive and we could do some good shit.
 
ConnorEl said:
Cool? Great.

Maybe instead of what's being floated we should raise taxes a bit on the wealthy (or more rich), lower them for everyone else. Probs could make that revenue neutral. Hell, maybe even revenue positive and we could do some good shit.
Click to expand...

Sure, get control of a couple branches of government and you can do just that. I don't see you getting there by taking money out of 90% of the country's pockets, though. So I'll take what I can get now, which ain't bad. Does taking this money mean we can never further revise taxes ever again?
 
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I have to personally gain control of two branches of government?

Why don’t the Pubs just do what they said they would do? Instead of lying about everything all the time.

I’m a lifelong Pub until the last several years. They are increasingly loosing educated and wealthier folks and that’s a trend they have some ability to control if they could give a damn about integrity or good governance.
 
palma, are you considering the macroeconomic issues at all?
 
ConnorEl said:
I have to personally gain control of two branches of government?

Why don’t the Pubs just do what they said they would do? Instead of lying about everything all the time.

I’m a lifelong Pub until the last several years. They are increasingly loosing educated and wealthier folks and that’s a trend they have some ability to control if they could give a damn about integrity or good governance.
Click to expand...

I'm a lifelong Democrat that's getting annoyed with them lying about everything all the time ;p
 
Next Up: Tax Reform

PhDeac said:
palma, are you considering the macroeconomic issues at all?
Click to expand...

We can't seem to get people to agree on the basic arithmetic yet. Don't think we're ready to move onto anything more complicated yet.
 
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Here's some basic math.

Effective tax rate going up for plenty of individuals and families under senate proposal. Including about 13 million in the "middle" class.

But that's not the main point.

Over time the benefits of lower taxation largely accrue to the most wealthy. At the expense of raising the debt which will ultimately hurt everyone, particularly the non-wealthy.
 
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The prevailing theory is that taking away the individual mandate will destroy the ACA, right? So now we're going to have to watch as Republicans wounded it for years, will now kill it, but weekend at Bernies it until it completely collapses without this mandate, all the while trashing Democrats?

Or do they have a replacement for...never mind. No need to even ask that.
 
Maybe we should have a mandate that everyone has to have boating insurance, so the poor boating enthusiasts can access affordable boating insurance.
 
Whatever Happened to Trump’s Populist Agenda?

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President Trump accomplished his unlikely rise to the White House powered in large part by an embrace of economic and cultural populism. Yet one year after this victory, the Republican Party still has no idea how to address or incorporate those populist elements into a coherent agenda. Nor, despite their best intentions, do Mr. Trump and his former adviser Steve Bannon.

This populism does not sit easily within the Republican Party’s business conservative wing (think Mitt Romney) or its “liberty” conservatives (think Tea Party) faction. So it’s not too surprising that virtually all of Mr. Trump’s signature populist ideas have been watered down or ignored, or are in limbo. Instead, Republicans push tax plans that overwhelmingly benefit their donor and executive class. It’s as though Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz won after all.

But they didn’t win, and they didn’t win for a reason. Republican voters want something different from anti-government or establishment Republicanism. And the voters who made Mr. Trump president, the millions of largely white men and women without college degrees who voted for Barack Obama before backing Mr. Trump, definitely do not want Romneyism with a human face.

The traditional Republican policy agenda is a political zombie, a relic that once served our nation well but is out of touch with what Americans want today. It doesn’t have to be this way. Mr. Trump and some of his supporters had good ideas for a reformed Republican Party that fuses conservative and populist elements into an alloy stronger than either on its own.

This fusion may now seem like a dream, but it can still walk among us if Republicans will it to be so. They need only look back to the man they purport to revere, Ronald Reagan, to make it happen.

We tend to forget that the Reagan coalition of the same three groups — non-Republican populists, fiscal conservatives and business Republicans — united behind coherent policy change.

On taxes, for example, today’s Republicans could decide that it is as important to lower taxes on families as it is to lower them for the rich or for corporations. That’s what Mr. Reagan did in his landmark 1986 tax reform, as a cursory look at any of his speeches promoting that reform would show. The tax bill could restore personal exemptions and make the child tax credit refundable against payroll taxes, making millions of families winners instead of losers, as they are under the current bill. It could be paid for by raising the income to which the top marginal income tax rate applies and by scaling back the corporate tax rate cut...
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Did not know this, but it is fitting:

 
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