• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Danny Manning Credibility Watch

donaldross said:
I will add we didn't have top 10 classes when Skip was here. We lost. Skip finished 12th and 11th (of 12) in the league his last two years. I love Skip as much as anyone but it is delusional to call Skip Prosser's time at Wake a success. Skip's famous quote was "we will be good again" for a reason.

Finally, I give hardly any money to Wake Forest sports. Where are you getting that? I gave more money to 5 schools this year than I did Wake Forest. I agree with your point--not fair for me to be calling for people's heads and still be paying their salaries.
Click to expand...

Skip did have a flaw in his inability to teach defense. The entire Paul/Connley situation cost us 2 years. Many would say that the Skip would have done more with the Dino teams, which he recruited most of those players.

The Skip/Dino record
2002 9-7 NCAAT 2nd round
2003 13-3 Regular season ACC champ, NCAAT 2nd round
2004 9-7 NCAAT sweet 16
2005 13-3 NCAAT 2nd round
2006 3-13 NIT 1st round
2007 5-11
Gaudio
2008 7-9
2009 11-5 NCAAT 1st round
2010 9-7 NCAAT 2nd round

Odom's above 500 season ration was 6-6, Skips alone was 4-2, with Dino's time 6-3. Odom had a losing season with RR on the team, how do you really do that?

Odom is known for 'the end is not the Trophy' and 'it will be good to have the name of the state in the schools name'.

Skip sold the benefits of Wake and didn't mope around about the challenges a great academic institution provided. He completely energized the fan base.
 
Yo DR, was that you who bought all that Romanee-Conti wine a few months back? You boys with Brian Walker?
 
wakephan09 said:
Yo DR, was that you who bought all that Romanee-Conti wine a few months back? You boys with Brian Walker?
Click to expand...

No, never heard of that one. And yes Brian is a fine attorney and family guy. He still roots for the Deacs some.
 
wtf22fan said:
That's my boy right there!
Click to expand...

Haters hate that line. That’s cause they’re old, broke, & don’t have any. Rich old dude curmudgeons support this proposition almost universally. Rich old dudes have 0 reason to lie to you. They have many reasons to lie to your date though.

That’s what I’m saying about the Joel. Stop lying and look awake administrators in the eye and say “two decades of losing is too much, let’s build the stadium that fits us and give a fresh AD a chance.”
 
donaldross said:
Lonely? I just saw that part. Lonely? That’s funny. My friends would tell you I have some problems in life: too much work, golf, women, & booze. No one has called me lonely before. Lonely sounds good! Lol
Click to expand...

Hey DR. Come see me my friend. I had no idea you were so lonely. 😎. This thread is off the rails. I'm pretty sure we all agree on a downsized arena. The only kicker is you prefer a ground up approach at say $80 Million and Wake Forest and Wellman prefer say a redo at $20 million. You might be right. Until recently Wake has pinched pennies when it comes to facilities. The influx of donations as of late is quite astounding. We now know that a group of alums got together and determined they were going to invest in our athletic programs. I believe you would have to get a group like them together to have any chance at a ground up building. I believe your selling problem is the belief a redo of the existing building leaves the program exactly where it began because though maybe not optimal, most will say half or three quarter loaf is good enough.
 
Agree strongly Mack and you’ve hit the nail on the head. We are settling on less than optimal for men’s basketball. People at Wake (as well as alums here) think that’s good enough. We own our failures going forward.
 
I have no problem with Wake deciding to build a new arena. If it can be either on campus or close enough to walk, awesome. If it's 6,000 seats with low ceilings and costs $100 mill, great. I love it. I'm all for it. Where this stops making sense is the idea we'll lose by keeping the Joel. Its just down the road from campus, and I expect the planned upgrades to make it one of the nicest facilities in the country. It won't be 6,000 packed in tight, and that's ok. It should be reduced to 9-10k seats. But the reason we're not national champs isn't the stadium. It's the players and coaches. A perfect example of how little the arena matters is Syracuse. I've seen multiple games in that concrete shithole. They play their games in a football stadium. It's gross. Players come to play for a hall of fame coach. Let's hope Danny keeps bringing in the kind of talent that's arriving next season, and he becomes that kind of coach. I'm hopeful. But if we don't win it's not because recruits were concerned by the acoustics in the upper right corner.
 
donaldross said:
Agree strongly Mack and you’ve hit the nail on the head. We are settling on less than optimal for men’s basketball. People at Wake (as well as alums here) think that’s good enough. We own our failures going forward.
Click to expand...

Settling for Wes Miller would be the height of LOWF. He has proven NOTHING and has had plenty of time to do so. Hiring Wes Miller in the past or now would be the classic definition of "settling".

EDIT: It may be below "settling" to hire Wes Miller. Here's an article that rates their Top 15 or so coaches under 40. Guess who isn't one of them?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ollege-basketball-coaches-to-watch-in-2017-18

Here's an article from ESPN. Again no mention of Wes Miller. It has another young UNC campus coach and another SOCon coach, but no Wes Miller:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21251683/college-basketball-coaches-rise
 
Last edited:
wakelaw13 said:
I have no problem with Wake deciding to build a new arena. If it can be either on campus or close enough to walk, awesome. If it's 6,000 seats with low ceilings and costs $100 mill, great. I love it. I'm all for it. Where this stops making sense is the idea we'll lose by keeping the Joel. Its just down the road from campus, and I expect the planned upgrades to make it one of the nicest facilities in the country. It won't be 6,000 packed in tight, and that's ok. It should be reduced to 9-10k seats. But the reason we're not national champs isn't the stadium. It's the players and coaches. A perfect example of how little the arena matters is Syracuse. I've seen multiple games in that concrete shithole. They play their games in a football stadium. It's gross. Players come to play for a hall of fame coach. Let's hope Danny keeps bringing in the kind of talent that's arriving next season, and he becomes that kind of coach. I'm hopeful. But if we don't win it's not because recruits were concerned by the acoustics in the upper right corner.
Click to expand...

Bingo!! Totally agreed!
 
Your position is the arena doesn’t matter all that much. Everyone seems to agree that the Joel is less than optimal. Some say it is as low as 2% of the equation—others like me think it could be as much as 25%

Bad businesses sit around argue about how much their losing is attribuatable to what. Great business minds fix the damn problem.
 
I don't know of anyone here advocating for the Joel to be left as is, do you? My unofficial polling on the subject shows the majority to be in favor of serious and extensive renovations, including substantially reducing the number of seats. I think 8-10k is appropriate. The renderings I've seen on here have been impressive. I mean shit, look at what Wake has done with the baseball facilities. I have faith they will meet or exceed that standard for the flagship sport. So your declarations about choosing to lose before you've even seen what the Joel is going to look like are premature and pretty over the top.
 
Nothing can be 25% without players and coaches. No empty building is intimidating. Our "fan base" has been abysmal since Skip died.

But there is little more useless than being obsessed with hiring a mediocre, second level coach. This is the definition of having a losing attitude.
 
A long time ago. I'm not disputing it's a bad building and needs renovation/upgrades. The first person I would hire is an acoustics expert along with an electronics specialist. We need to make the place fun. We also have to to take grey and blue hairs from behind the benches.

Our problem with that is having enough money to do like Stanford did and complete the project in one off-season. We have no other place to play.
 
RJKarl said:
A long time ago. I'm not disputing it's a bad building and needs renovation/upgrades. The first person I would hire is an acoustics expert along with an electronics specialist. We need to make the place fun. We also have to to take grey and blue hairs from behind the benches.

Our problem with that is having enough money to do like Stanford did and complete the project in one off-season. We have no other place to play.
Click to expand...

Greensboro? :)
 
Who cares about 1 year? The next rendition of the stadium is another 30-40 years. For the first time money is not a credible excuse. We must leave the next generation with the ideal environment to win. We can debate about what that is but we all finally agree it is not the Joel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top