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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - Charles Coleman de-commits to Wake. :(

deaclite said:
Yeah, that is 100% correct. VaTech has a lot of young guards so we should promise him the moon.
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Buzz has figured out how to successfully play a 4 guard line-up. Step one: start with unselfish guards.
 
I am hoping a couple of swing players see Hoard as a one-and-done with a lot of potential minutes. Ditto for a 4 and a big. There are minutes frosh year for elites who commit.

If I am big, I honestly don't see why you would go to Duke if you want to be a one-and-done. One, Coach K is NOT a great big man coach. He just isn't. Two, you could get recruited over. In fact, the kid in the class BELOW you could suddenly find the credits to move up a year. There are too many borderline NBA talented players Coach K has buried on the bench by recruiting over them to consider yourself safe unless you are a Top 5 player. If you are situation 15 - 40, go somewhere else where you will be glorified, not recruited over.

Coach K is held together by bile, grecian formula, and duct tape. Gaskets are bound to blow soon.

Honestly, a slew of one-and-done with our staff's ability to marry player development with in game adjustments and final 5 minute preparation is not great, so you could come to Wake, play for a talented team, and win 15 games at this point until our staff figure out a way to game coach, but 3/4 of your games are going to be televised nationally. Yeah, you probably won't play for a natty, but Duke probably won't either. They are just more likely to do so.

CP3 locker room gonna be da bomb.
 
Strickland33 said:
Like who? Who do we have a reasonable chance with that could salvage this class. The goal should be to build on classes. Even if we can't land another Hoard, we should be surrounding Hoard with 4-star players to ensure that he isn't a one man foundation (and that his class isn't expected to provide the only talent in our rebuild).

The biggest issues with [Redacted] and Manning as recruiters is that a good class is followed by a subpar class. Great programs bring in players every year they have the scholarships to do so. They're not stacking classes with filler because they have scholarships to give and betting the farm on once in a decade-caliber prospects to bring them occasional success.

Going 1/4 on the recruiting class that follows a "foundational" or "core" recruiting class on your first contract as a coach is a really bad look. Good coaches just don't do this and good programs don't tolerate it.



Me neither.



Indeed he was. That said, Manning has pulled in his share of "unheralded" misses, too. That 2016 class will probably go down as one of the worst classes in recent memory, [Redacted]'s classes included.
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That’s only two guys out of all the 4 star + guys we’re on the final list for. I’m not saying it’s likely we sign any of them, just saying it’s not an automatic dud class because we don’t land one of two guys.
 
I'm not going to fall down the rabbit hole with you regarding #3 because I know how badly you want to debate whether or not Chill or good, moderate, or average relative to his recruiting ranking and other classes. We could also debate endlessly about whether there were good players in the Sensational 7. I still believe that there were, so I'll give [name redacted] some credit for recruiting that class. My point, though, is that if Brandon Childress is the best player in a four person recruiting class following a class that supposedly put your school back on the map, then that's an objectively bad class. Context is context, but in the present, a majority of our woes as a program, I think, can be summarized by the fact that we have a back-up point guard as the best player in a four person recruiting class who should be the veterans on our team this year.

You're not understanding my point re: Manning's recruiting. What makes 2016 such an awful class (and why we should be so worried about 2019) is where it falls in our "rebuild." Assuming that we're rebuilding from scratch again, having just one "recruited" junior on the roster is a major problem. I don't know about you, but after a decade I'm sick of hearing about how young we are and how that's a reason why we can't make it over the hump. Bridge classes are key for any respectable program. We just suck at them and, instead, put all of our eggs into the baskets of players whose broad shoulders aren't possibly broad enough to deliver the goods on their own.

ETA: There are some well-informed posters on here (and some of us do pay to receive insights from Les and recruiting analysts, but do not share them on here to respect paywalls). All of the information suggests that our best bet is Harris and that's a pretty bad bet at this point in the game. You can also look at the first post to see how we have fared with other 2019 offers who committed elsewhere (or cut us from lists). That list, IMO, suggests who we are competing against for recruits and there are some damning names on that list.
 
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CharlotteDeac1 said:
I don’t think if we don’t land one of those two that it’s a for sure dud of a class. We have a lot of other prospects considering us so it’s possible to still land a couple good ones, however unlikely it is/may seem.
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Ayo said:
I don't remember such little recruiting buzz this time of year, even during the Bz years.
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jaybone said:
I am hoping a couple of swing players see Hoard as a one-and-done with a lot of potential minutes. Ditto for a 4 and a big. There are minutes frosh year for elites who commit.

If I am big, I honestly don't see why you would go to Duke if you want to be a one-and-done. One, Coach K is NOT a great big man coach. He just isn't. Two, you could get recruited over. In fact, the kid in the class BELOW you could suddenly find the credits to move up a year. There are too many borderline NBA talented players Coach K has buried on the bench by recruiting over them to consider yourself safe unless you are a Top 5 player. If you are situation 15 - 40, go somewhere else where you will be glorified, not recruited over.

Coach K is held together by bile, grecian formula, and duct tape. Gaskets are bound to blow soon.

Honestly, a slew of one-and-done with our staff's ability to marry player development with in game adjustments and final 5 minute preparation is not great, so you could come to Wake, play for a talented team, and win 15 games at this point until our staff figure out a way to game coach, but 3/4 of your games are going to be televised nationally. Yeah, you probably won't play for a natty, but Duke probably won't either. They are just more likely to do so.

CP3 locker room gonna be da bomb.
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If the formula for improved recruiting and sustained program success is so obvious, then why have two full staffs struggled so much with the basics? We're not and will never be Duke.
 
Look to see if Manning can 0 fer. Not much optimism here, but I am leaving town soon, so maybe that will help
 
I think when all is said & done Brandon Childress will prove to have been an outstanding recruit. I expect him to finish his career very well. His career trajectory will follow what is more the norm for ACC programs that are not named Duke or UNC.
 
advancedeac said:
I think when all is said & done Brandon Childress will prove to have been an outstanding recruit. I expect him to finish his career very well. His career trajectory will follow what is more the norm for ACC programs that are not named Duke or UNC.
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That's fine and good, but when a player like Childress (who wasn't really recruited because it was pretty clear he would come to Wake) is the best player in a recruiting class, then your program has a problem.
 
Strickland33 said:
If the formula for improved recruiting and sustained program success is so obvious, then why have two full staffs struggled so much with the basics? We're not and will never be Duke.
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I’m not being optimistic. Just saying it’s still a possibility, albeit a small one, to land other recruits outside one of those two that would make a solid class.
 
We have had an overriding problem for the past 3 seasons in that our most talented players( Collins, Dinos, Crawford), those showing some growth ( Moore, Washington ) have all left before their final year of eligibility. When you're replacing those guys with players who aren't 5 star recruits, and need a couple years to become productive, it is virtually impossible to develop an identity or consistency. While we obviously need to recruit better talent we also need to keep our best players as they develop because we don't have the depth to step in and replace them when they leave early. It's great to have Hoard coming in, but if he ends up as a one and done it will do nothing for us. If our current crop of 3 or 4 star recruits are together in a couple years we might actually be ok. In 2020 think Childress, Chaundee, Hoard, Mucius and Sarr. That would potentially be a pretty competitive starting 5. The question is will they still be together.
 
Any chance we recruit this guy at point guard ?

 
Really think the only realistic chance at a commit from this weekends visitors would be Jared Jones
 
I feel like we've taken a one year break from following basketball recruiting.
 
sportsnut said:
Really think the only realistic chance at a commit from this weekends visitors would be Jared Jones
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I don't even remember that name being posted on this thread before. Who is visiting this weekend? Trayce Jackson-Davis, Anthony Harris, and Jared Jones? Are there others?
 
Ayo said:
I don't even remember that name being posted on this thread before. Who is visiting this weekend? Trayce Jackson-Davis, Anthony Harris, and Jared Jones? Are there others?
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Yes.

I wonder if sportsnut means that he's the only one that might commit after this weekend, or if he's the only one that sportsnut thinks we have any kind of shot at? I suspect the latter, and that gives me the sads.

While I think Jackson-Davis is pretty much 100% going to Indiana (rjkarl is probably right on that), I am still holding out hope that Harris sees Wake Forest as a good fit. I don't know much about Jared Jones, but he seems like the level of player we're likely to end up with this time around. Massoud is a guy that I would still LOVE to have, and I'm not sure why we're considered such a longshot here (I guess people just assume he's staying near home and going to Rutgers).
 
Strickland33 said:
I'm not going to fall down the rabbit hole with you regarding #3 because I know how badly you want to debate whether or not Chill or good, moderate, or average relative to his recruiting ranking and other classes. We could also debate endlessly about whether there were good players in the Sensational 7. I still believe that there were, so I'll give [name redacted] some credit for recruiting that class. My point, though, is that if Brandon Childress is the best player in a four person recruiting class following a class that supposedly put your school back on the map, then that's an objectively bad class. Context is context, but in the present, a majority of our woes as a program, I think, can be summarized by the fact that we have a back-up point guard as the best player in a four person recruiting class who should be the veterans on our team this year.

You're not understanding my point re: Manning's recruiting. What makes 2016 such an awful class (and why we should be so worried about 2019) is where it falls in our "rebuild." Assuming that we're rebuilding from scratch again, having just one "recruited" junior on the roster is a major problem. I don't know about you, but after a decade I'm sick of hearing about how young we are and how that's a reason why we can't make it over the hump. Bridge classes are key for any respectable program. We just suck at them and, instead, put all of our eggs into the baskets of players whose broad shoulders aren't possibly broad enough to deliver the goods on their own.

ETA: There are some well-informed posters on here (and some of us do pay to receive insights from Les and recruiting analysts, but do not share them on here to respect paywalls). All of the information suggests that our best bet is Harris and that's a pretty bad bet at this point in the game. You can also look at the first post to see how we have fared with other 2019 offers who committed elsewhere (or cut us from lists). That list, IMO, suggests who we are competing against for recruits and there are some damning names on that list.
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The 16 class has produced more on the court than the ‘11, ‘13, and ‘04 classes and could surpass ‘05 and a few others when all is said and done. The class still sucks but it’s not one of the worst ever at Wake. Not sure what there is to debate.

I’m pretty sure I understand your point just fine seeing as how I’ve been making it constantly for over a year. The failure of the ‘16 class and JC leaving early were the overwhelming causes for last year’s struggles, not Manning’s in-game coaching struggles. I’m glad people are finally getting on board.

There’s a difference between following something closely and being informed. Unless you are getting your information from a recruit’s inner circle or someone on the staff then you are reading tea leaves just like everyone else. I haven’t seen much, if any, of the former on here.
 
Win shares by class post-Dino:

2012 - 23.5 (Rountree 2.0, Miller-McIntyre 6.4, Moto 2.1, Andre Washington 1.0, Cavanaugh 1.8, Thomas 8.9, Madison Jones 1.3)
2015 - 19.9 (Moore 4.3, Crawford 8.5, Collins 7.1)
2014 - 13.7 (Wilbiken 5.9, Watson 0.3, Mitoglu 6.0, Hudson 1.5)
2010 - 12.2 (McKie 12.3, Tabb -0.1)
2016 - 3.1* (Mathias 0.0, Childress 2.6, Washington -0.1, Mitchell 0.6)
2013 - 1.6 (McClinton 1.2, Overton 0.4)
2011 - 1.3 (Fischer 1.6, Fields -0.4, Green 0.1)
2017 - 1.3* (Brown 0.8, Eggleston 0.1, Okeke 0.2, Sarr 0.2)

*class has remaining eligibility
 
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We recently offered a young man in Richmond named Beran. Did not make his top seven but Coaches Mack and Gaudio are mentioned in an article here today.
 
RChildress107 said:
There’s a difference between following something closely and being informed. Unless you are getting your information from a recruit’s inner circle or someone on the staff then you are reading tea leaves just like everyone else. I haven’t seen much, if any, of the former on here.
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sportsnut, bigboy, and occasionally Creamy have their fingers on the pulse. Plenty of folks stay on top of things on Twitter and a lot of information about relative interest in programs comes from those types of posts.

Posts like these are sometimes hard to find because certain posters feel the need to spam this thread with mind-numbingly pedantic arguments over what precise combination of variables explain Manning's coaching proficiency as a "fairly shitty" coach, instead of just a "straight up shitty" coach or a "maybe, but maybe not so shitty" coach.

There is also information out there if you are willing to compensate writers an incredibly small sum of money annually for their efforts. I'm not going to post anything that is behind a paywall on here, but that doesn't mean that there isn't anything there.
 
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