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18 million guaranteed...

SkyDivingDeacon said:
Sure, he has no obligation to provide it but that doesn't mean he shouldn't given the circumstances. Also, if he had made good choices and managed this situation well over the last 10 years, nobody would care and he could get away with hollow statements like that. Not now...at least not in my opinion. It makes me distrust him and his judgment even more.
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Americans are weird. We like to be rich and we believe rich people are more virtuous than poor people, but rich people don't like to tell how much money they make or how they make their money and the rest of us don't hold them accountable.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
https://mytakeonwhatever.com/2018/1...bq-1KwsffJ69WUqXgAkiHjlVd6B4_YrerRK6wT65aU5jQ

Dan is tearing it up.
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Here's my theory why a coach like Clawson is passionate or "hungry" as Dan states it and why a coach like Manning may not be. Danny Manning was at the pinnacle as a player in college basketball, he won a national title as the best player in the country. He also had a good NBA career, could've been better without injuries, but he had a much better NBA career than people realize. So, I think for a guy like that, coaching probably never fully fulfills them like their playing days did. His love for basketball makes coaching an obvious avenue after his playing days were done, but it's not the same. Contrast that with a guy like Clawson, played football at Williams College, D3 level. He probably dreamed of playing at the major college level, but wasn't good enough as a player. So, his only avenue to be at a level I'm sure he desired to be as a player is as a coach. I think that probably creates a greater passion for coaching than it does for a guy like Manning. Of course there has been great players that have also been great coaches, but I think a lot of times being a great player doesn't translate into being a great coach.
 
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That's well said, liveordie. Danny Manning already won a national championship. He's not as hungry to win one as most coaches would be.
 
PhDeac said:
Americans are weird. We like to be rich and we believe rich people are more virtuous than poor people, but rich people don't like to tell how much money they make or how they make their money and the rest of us don't hold them accountable.
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I mean, keeping information confidential is something that the majority of non-public companies and non-governmental institutions do. If you want to decry this as some sort of social issue, go ahead. But I think your outrage is misplaced. I'm fairly certain any AD we have would not disclose this information.
 
DeaconSig said:
I mean, keeping information confidential is something that the majority of non-public companies and non-governmental institutions do. If you want to decry this as some sort of social issue, go ahead. But I think your outrage is misplaced. I'm fairly certain any AD we have would not disclose this information.
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That's all fine and good but don't tell us after every year how "close" we are to being great and that's why you are keeping him on. Give it to us straight that he has a fully guaranteed contract for 18 mil and that you fucked it up. Be a man for once instead of hiding out in the ivory tower.

Were this a public institution, the boosters would have demanded transparency and gotten it.
 
A simple - 'you cant't believe everything you read' would have been sufficient and doesn't reveal any private information.

6 years at $3 mm, fully guaranteed is so out of the market for a coach with DM's record, I can't believe a competent AD wouldn't want everyone to know that wasn't the case.
 
deacondamo said:
Being filthy rich BEFORE he got into coaching can't help either.
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Definitely that too and I even think there can be an attitude that "I was able to do these things as a player, you ought to be able to." Well, Danny was one of the best college players of all time, not too many players are going to get "it" like he did and are going to need to be coached up more.
 
One of the most laughable, insane parts of this extension—if true—is the timing of it last year. 1-4 start and you offer that. It’s so dumb it hurts.
 
PhDeac said:
That's well said, liveordie. Danny Manning already won a national championship. He's not as hungry to win one as most coaches would be.
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Oh please - we have no idea how hungry he is to win a national championship. You act like it is just a fact. One could argue that he won a national championship because he was more competitive than most other players, and he is likely more competitive now as a coach as well. I really don't know if that is true either though. And the "he already had money, so he probably doesn't care" argument is dumb too. I bet that Nick Saban and Coach K have more money than Manning, and you think they don't care about winning? They've also won multiple championships, yet I am pretty sure they want to win another win as much, if not more so, than other coaches. Some good players end up being good coaches, and some good players end up being crap coaches. On the other hand, some lesser players end up being good coaches, and some lesser players end up being crap coaches. One coaching advantage to being a lesser player is that you probably get to start your coaching career earlier. You probably also don't get the advantage of skipping some coaching steps, so perhaps you learn more while coaching JV high school on the way up.
 
Bubble Boy said:
Oh please - we have no idea how hungry he is to win a national championship. You act like it is just a fact. One could argue that he won a national championship because he was more competitive than most other players, and he is likely more competitive now as a coach as well. I really don't know if that is true either though. And the "he already had money, so he probably doesn't care" argument is dumb too. I bet that Nick Saban and Coach K have more money than Manning, and you think they don't care about winning? They've also won multiple championships, yet I am pretty sure they want to win another win as much, if not more so, than other coaches. Some good players end up being good coaches, and some good players end up being crap coaches. On the other hand, some lesser players end up being good coaches, and some lesser players end up being crap coaches. One coaching advantage to being a lesser player is that you probably get to start your coaching career earlier. You probably also don't get the advantage of skipping some coaching steps, so perhaps you learn more while coaching JV high school on the way up.
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The point is Nick Sabin and Coach K were not great players and both played at a lower level. Sabin and K got rich from becoming great coaches, that is how they made their fortunes. Big difference in that and already having a fortune before you begin a career.
 
Why is interesting but unprovable speculation that really does not mean much. The what is the issue and after 5 years Manning has underperformed, ofetn dismally, in every area with no token signs of improvement much less quantifiable profress. This in a sport where you canturn things around very quickly. Houston Baptist and Western Carolina should be enough to destroy ant illusion of progress. Buckle up for big boy basketball. Won't be pretty.
 
dcon69 said:
Why is interesting but unprovable speculation that really does not mean much. The what is the issue and after 5 years Manning has underperformed, ofetn dismally, in every area with no token signs of improvement much less quantifiable profress. This in a sport where you canturn things around very quickly. Houston Baptist and Western Carolina should be enough to destroy ant illusion of progress. Buckle up for big boy basketball. Won't be pretty.
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Like I said, it's just my theory. That and $5 will get you a latte from Starbucks.
 
I'm mostly lurk but I'd like to put on record that I find myself agreeing with pretty much everything Racer has to say about the basketball situation.

Some posters here are eternal optimists who aren't built to run a successful business or organization. Successful businesses require quick reactions and course adjustments.

Before this season, I found it maddening when people hoped against all hope that Manning would put a solid D on the floor because he finally had the athletes. If it wasn't clear to you after a year or two and especially by last year that Manning did not have the coaching chops to field a solid D, then you shouldn't be commenting on basketball. Every Manning team since he's gotten to Wake has exhibited little communication between players on D, lack of passion, and schemes and tactics that simply don't work.

Glad some people have finally pulled their head out of their assholes.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Like I said, it's just my theory. That and $5 will get you a latte from Starbucks.
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My theory 10 & 5 years ago was to hire Wes for peanuts. They all laughed. They still are. I thought it was equally stupid they were laughing back then. Now they know they are stupid but laughing anyway because they can’t believe I was right.
 
Theory

I dunno, something about this whole story seems fishy to me. Could someone be leveraged the media/sources to achieve the goals they want? it all just seems convenient that these details are coming out.
 
dcon69 said:
Why is interesting but unprovable speculation that really does not mean much. The what is the issue and after 5 years Manning has underperformed, ofetn dismally, in every area with no token signs of improvement much less quantifiable profress. This in a sport where you canturn things around very quickly. Houston Baptist and Western Carolina should be enough to destroy ant illusion of progress. Buckle up for big boy basketball. Won't be pretty.
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Agree. Not sure why people are trying to come up with crazy reasons to "prove" that Manning is not a good coach. How about this for a reason - because his teams don't play very well. They lose to most of the teams that should be peers (i.e. ACC teams), and struggle with (and sometimes lose to) teams that they should beat rather handily.
 
Guys this is not even remotely true. Wellman is a jerk and a fool but not a total blithering idiot. Manning would have to make 3 mil per year and that is certainly NOT the case, nor has it ever been, to pay a coach that amount at Wake. If this were true we would have had a MUCH better coach already instead of the Bezzledick and Manning experiments
 
ECU fired AD and Montgomery. UNC fired Fedora. USC fired Helton. Texas Tech fired Kingbury. Etc etc. NOTHING happens at WFU. NOTHING! After 10 years! I’m out.
 
Wake's financial situation in November 2017 was not comparable to its financial situation in April 2010 or especially in April 2014 (when both [Redacted] and Grobe had just been bought out).
 
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