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Sutton Sports Performance Center Catches Fire At Wake Forest University

TheReff said:
KA's were steeped in Southern traditions. That is just the way it was down south in those times. The Rebel flag was everywhere in the South and it was accepted. Doesn't mean people were as much racists as they were proud of their southern heritage. You had to be from down here and not a Yankee to appreciate it. People growing up with their parents in the 50's & 60's had maids dressed in their blue outfits. We can't just erase our traditions and love of Robert E Lee and expect by tearing down statues that it is going to make it go away.

But going back to today's front page of the Winston-Salem Journal, quite funny that one of THE most liberal people on campus--Martha Allman--is the center of attention now for standing with the KA's and the Confederate flag. Amazing that the Libs keep embarrassing themselves of late, more & more.
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So how many confederate flags have you posed in front of?
 
BobHWS said:
There needs to be a trial procedure set up so that the hidden racists on campus can be identified, prosecuted and banished.

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Awful defensive....are there pics of you out there we should know about?
 
Bob, do you think racism is real? Witches aren’t.
 
HoosierDeac said:
I don't really see this being discussed- what are the person's actions since that time? If their life's work since then was beneficial to social causes/equality etc etc, how should we think about such pictures? Is redemption a possibility in the public eye? Are some past actions irredeemable? Which ones?
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This why I said a suspension or demotion is appropriate unless her actions since then have supported KA's beliefs.
 
RJKarl said:
This why I said a suspension or demotion is appropriate unless her actions since then have supported KA's beliefs.
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Why would that be appropriate because she stood in front of a flag in a picture 37 years ago? Generally you suspend or demote People based on current conduct as a deterrent from doing that again.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Why would that be appropriate because she stood in front of a flag in a picture 37 years ago? Generally you suspend or demote People based on current conduct as a deterrent from doing that again.
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The default in these situations for someone in her type of role should be immediate dismissal. She should be given a chance to talk her way into a demotion or suspension if this was an isolated incident, she issues a sincere apology, and has a track record contrary to that photo.
 
RChildress107 said:
The default in these situations for someone in her type of role should be immediate dismissal. She should be given a chance to talk her way into a demotion or suspension if this was an isolated incident, she issues a sincere apology, and has a track record contrary to that photo.
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LOL. I am glad she didn't have something like a DWI on her record from college.
 
BobHWS said:
Do you think Martha Allman is a racist? Do you think there are scores or perhaps hundreds of secret racists on the Wake campus? Do you think Wake Forest University, as an institution, is racist?
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she might be, there might be, and it might be

and we won't find out until we push harder on situations like this
 
I think Wake is racist as an institution. It’s history supports that. Trying to explain it away doesn’t do anyone any favors. In my interactions with Martha Allman, I don’t think she’s particularly virulently racist, but I think it’s fair to question the influence of leadership in institutions with things like this in their past. When students raise concerns about aspects of Wake Forest that are institutionally racist, I think it’s reasonable to consider that this picture really wasn’t that long ago in the grand scheme of things. WF Administrators dealt with racism issues involving this very same fraternity when I was at Wake which wasn’t that long ago.

Time is neutral. There is nothing magical about the passage of 37 years that somehow makes this picture not ok. It’s not ok because people like these students have pushed for change along the way. Ed Reynolds didn’t enroll at WFU in 1962 because 130 years just felt about right. He did so because folks fought for integration within the institution they cared about. I don’t know that Allman should lose her job over this, but I think it’s good that an institution I care very deeply about is being held to a high standard by its students.
 
She is being embarrassed nationally. She is contrite. She is certainly being made an example nationally that something you did in college could have long lasting ramifications. Her history shows that she has been very involved in campaigns to improve things at Wake from a diversity and inclusion standpoint.

Seems to me that the punishment has already fit the crime here.
 
ChrisL68 said:
She is being embarrassed nationally. She is contrite. She is certainly being made an example nationally that something you did in college could have long lasting ramifications. Her history shows that she has been very involved in campaigns to improve things at Wake from a diversity and inclusion standpoint.

Seems to me that the punishment has already fit the crime here.
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What are the ramifications, Chris? You, TheReff, and DistrictDeac seem to be suggesting that there shouldn't be any actual ramifications. Neither for Allman nor for Northam (to name another, more extreme situation that you also argued should not result in any tangible ramifications).

For as much as some of y'all malign sociology, the same some of y'all would benefit from googling "institutional racism." I don't think it works the way that you think it works.
 
ChrisL68 said:
She is being embarrassed nationally. She is contrite. She is certainly being made an example nationally that something you did in college could have long lasting ramifications. Her history shows that she has been very involved in campaigns to improve things at Wake from a diversity and inclusion standpoint.

Seems to me that the punishment has already fit the crime here.
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Well said.

Many of the KAs are racists. The confederate flag is bad. And The Reff is an idiot. If she has done the right things in her career, we should accept her apology and move on.
 
I guess another issue is the extent to which you are willing to excuse "youthful mistakes" of twentysomethings who now occupy positions of relative power and leadership. How many non-white folks with youthful drug or other relatively minor delinquency-related convictions on their record, for example, occupy positions of influence in the Wake Forest administration?
 
BobHWS said:
Do you think Martha Allman is a racist? Do you think there are scores or perhaps hundreds of secret racists on the Wake campus? Do you think Wake Forest University, as an institution, is racist?
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Bob, do you think racism is real? Witches aren’t.
 
ChrisL68 said:
She is being embarrassed nationally. She is contrite. She is certainly being made an example nationally that something you did in college could have long lasting ramifications. Her history shows that she has been very involved in campaigns to improve things at Wake from a diversity and inclusion standpoint.

Seems to me that the punishment has already fit the crime here.
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Has Wake improved from a diversity and inclusion standpoint? I think it’s fair to ask if things would be better at Wake if someone who wasn’t affiliated with KA was in charge of admissions.
 
PhDeac said:
Has Wake improved from a diversity and inclusion standpoint? I think it’s fair to ask if things would be better at Wake if someone who wasn’t affiliated with KA was in charge of admissions.
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From my reading she was the major champion of removing SAT and ACT Testing from the admissions requirement process. That was a very provocative move for a top 30 University to make at the time and diversity in the school has increased 50% in the last six or seven years
 
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ChrisL68 said:
LOL. I am glad she didn't have something like a DWI on her record from college.
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This is worse than a DWI. If it was a dumb mistake that she immediately regretted and she comes out and says that, then fine. It’s seems far more likely that she saw nothing wrong with it at the time or for a while thereafter.
 
Strickland33 said:
I guess another issue is the extent to which you are willing to excuse "youthful mistakes" of twentysomethings who now occupy positions of relative power and leadership. How many non-white folks with youthful drug or other relatively minor delinquency-related convictions on their record, for example, occupy positions of influence in the Wake Forest administration?
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However much she is willing to excuse the “youthful mistakes” of the 17 and 18 year olds applying to Wake. I would hope that a kid who showed up to a Wake interview wearing racist paraphernalia wouldn’t be admitted, but that’s probably naive.
 
RChildress107 said:
However much she is willing to excuse the “youthful mistakes” of the 17 and 18 year olds applying to Wake. I would hope that a kid who showed up to a Wake interview wearing racist paraphernalia wouldn’t be admitted, but that’s probably naive.
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That's an extreme hypothetical. How many POC students with marijuana convictions, for example, are at Wake?
 
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