Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

[DDA]

I’m on record saying Kavanaugh shouldn’t have been confirmed and Trump should be impeached. But I get it’s fun to play #allconservatives.

Nah you’re good. I don’t lump you in with Angus and Sailor. “Tunnels right” is playing off Angus’ dumb “tunnels left.”

 

[Tobacco Road]

I’m on record saying Kavanaugh shouldn’t have been confirmed and Trump should be impeached. But I get it’s fun to play #allconservatives.

You make a good point about one side lumping the entire other “team” into one mindset or opinion. However, that is pretty much where we are with today’s politics. Kavanaugh had quite strong and uniform support from the right. Do you disagree?

People also tend to comment with influence from the relative outcomes and response from the other side. The left has watched the right claim moral superiority and family values (basically calling the left deplorables before Hillary), only to see light cast on the right’s immortality without the slightest of acknowledgement from republicans. These soulless republicans just excuse Trump as the imperfect vessel that is God’s will. Get the fuck out of here with that. Don’t tell me it’s not all pubs. It is nearly all. Remember, we do have polling data to tell us what pubs think of him. He is a horrible human and they love him.
Then shitbags come on here to whatabout a dem that actually resigned. Dems are understandably a bit defensive.

 

[Strickland33]

Fair enough. I’m just mystified why people on here are defending her.

Nice to see you again, Junebug.

 

[Highland Deac]

Stop with this #goteam bullshit. She had a sexual relationship with a female staffer. In what world is that okay? If Hill were a male pub, you would (rightly) be saying that the power dynamics of the boss-subordinate relationship vitiated the staffer’s consent.

LOL. So, an adult woman having a consensual affair with another woman is not OK? What world do you live in, Junebug? It happened before she was elected, so there is nothing illegal about it. You can certainly argue that it was wrong for a married woman to be seeing someone else (although apparently her hubby approved, and was sleeping with the staffer as well.) And, no I wouldn't be saying that about a male Pub unless the staffer involved claimed that it wasn't consensual. She was 24 and Hill was 32, which is hardly a large leap of years. So, no, this is not about "goteam" bullshit or whatever. Kavanaugh was accused of sexual assault, which is rather different from this case, correct?

The real issue is whether she had an affair with male staffer under her supervision after she took a seat in Congress, which is a much bigger deal as it is clearly illegal. If that is true, then yes she should have resigned.

 

[avalon]

Having a relationship with a staffer (if true) is obviously not ok. Even the relationship with a campaign staffer is not ok.

I just really hate that this came out through revenge porn from her ex.

BTW, if you want to highlight Republican hypocrisy, Duncan Hunter is right there.

 

[birdman]

LOL. So, an adult woman having a consensual affair with another woman is not OK? What world do you live in, Junebug? It happened before she was elected, so there is nothing illegal about it. You can certainly argue that it was wrong for a married woman to be seeing someone else (although apparently her hubby approved, and was sleeping with the staffer as well.) And, no I wouldn't be saying that about a male Pub unless the staffer involved claimed that it wasn't consensual. She was 24 and Hill was 32, which is hardly a large leap of years. So, no, this is not about "goteam" bullshit or whatever. Kavanaugh was accused of sexual assault, which is rather different from this case, correct?

The real issue is whether she had an affair with male staffer under her supervision after she took a seat in Congress, which is a much bigger deal as it is clearly illegal. If that is true, then yes she should have resigned.

Lets get the story straight, it's complicated. She had an affair with a female staffer during the campaign and the husband was also fucking the same female staffer, probably had some threesomes. Husband sold nude photos of the two women, who had a perfectly legal, though inappropriate, fling during the campaign, to conservative news outlets during the divorce to discredit his soon to be ex-wife (this is called revenge porn and it's pretty fucking depraved). Now the husband is accusing his soon to be ex-wife of having an affair with a male staffer after the election while in congress, which would be illegal, if true, but considering that the source of the accusation already published revenge porn of the lady involved to try and discredit her during a nasty divorce, the source of the accusation is questionable (thus the "defense" offered by the "tunnels left"). Regardless she resigned in shame and her political career is over, because that's how Democrats roll (See Al Franken). Meanwhile Pubs (Angus anyway), who put a guy that bragged on a hot mic 12 years ago about compulsively sexually assaulting women, are parading around as if this sad story of unfortunate sexual promiscuity and marital failure is some sort of victory and proof that it was ok for the pubs to have elected a probable serial rapist to the white house and that Dems are the ones with the real hypocrisy problem.

 

[PhDeac]

And Junebug is calling Hill a “sexual predator” for having threesomes.

 

[Highland Deac]

Lets get the story straight, it's complicated. She had an affair with a female staffer during the campaign and the husband was also fucking the same female staffer, probably had some threesomes. Husband sold nude photos of the two women, who had a perfectly legal, though inappropriate, fling during the campaign, to conservative news outlets during the divorce to discredit his soon to be ex-wife (this is called revenge porn and it's pretty fucking depraved). Now the husband is accusing his soon to be ex-wife of having an affair with a male staffer after the election while in congress, which would be illegal, if true, but considering that the source of the accusation already published revenge porn of the lady involved to try and discredit her during a nasty divorce, the source of the accusation is questionable (thus the "defense" offered by the "tunnels left"). Regardless she resigned in shame and her political career is over, because that's how Democrats roll (See Al Franken). Meanwhile Pubs (Angus anyway), who put a guy that bragged on a hot mic 12 years ago about compulsively sexually assaulting women, are parading around as if this sad story of unfortunate sexual promiscuity and marital failure is some sort of victory and proof that it was ok for the pubs to have elected a probable serial rapist to the white house and that Dems are the ones with the real hypocrisy problem.

Agreed on all counts. I do think that she showed poor judgment in the affair with the female staffer, but I don't think she should have resigned, as it was not illegal and the affair apparently ended before she took office. It would no doubt have been used against her in her next campaign, and would be fair game for her opponent. I also would say the same of any politician in a similar circumstance, as this was consensual and happened before she took office. Poor judgment, but not resignation-worthy. If she did have an affair with the male staffer that is entirely different, as it was after she took office and would therefore be illegal. She has denied said affair, but chose to resign anyway.

I initially responded to the accusation of Angus that Hill was a hypocrite for opposing Kavanaugh, which is a totally different situation. Kavanaugh was accused of sexual assault, which is not at all the same. Hill is claiming that her husband was abusive, which is one of the reasons they're getting divorced. I do find it interesting that her critics have yet to criticize her husband for releasing/selling all of these nude photos to conservative blogs and websites, or to criticize them for displaying them, which is effectively nothing more than old-fashioned slut shaming, imo. She's hardly an angel and no doubt has made some bad decisions, but she's not guilty of sexual assault, or anything close from what I've read.

 

[DeaconSig]

Guys, you don't get it. SHE OPPOSED KAVANAUGH!!!! Clearly she is a hypocrite of the highest order.


Funny thing is, by Brad's demented "logic", she should stay in office.

 

[JuiceCrewAllStar]

Having a relationship with a staffer (if true) is obviously not ok. Even the relationship with a campaign staffer is not ok.

I just really hate that this came out through revenge porn from her ex.

BTW, if you want to highlight Republican hypocrisy, Duncan Hunter is right there.

perhaps an unpopular opinion, but a consensual relationship with a staffer doesn't move the needle for me one iota

 

[DistrictDeacon]

Agreed on all counts. I do think that she showed poor judgment in the affair with the female staffer, but I don't think she should have resigned, as it was not illegal and the affair apparently ended before she took office. It would no doubt have been used against her in her next campaign, and would be fair game for her opponent. I also would say the same of any politician in a similar circumstance, as this was consensual and happened before she took office. Poor judgment, but not resignation-worthy. If she did have an affair with the male staffer that is entirely different, as it was after she took office and would therefore be illegal. She has denied said affair, but chose to resign anyway.

I initially responded to the accusation of Angus that Hill was a hypocrite for opposing Kavanaugh, which is a totally different situation. Kavanaugh was accused of sexual assault, which is not at all the same. Hill is claiming that her husband was abusive, which is one of the reasons they're getting divorced. I do find it interesting that her critics have yet to criticize her husband for releasing/selling all of these nude photos to conservative blogs and websites, or to criticize them for displaying them, which is effectively nothing more than old-fashioned slut shaming, imo. She's hardly an angel and no doubt has made some bad decisions, but she's not guilty of sexual assault, or anything close from what I've read.

Having an affair with a staffer is not illegal, even if you're a member of Congress. I don't know where people are getting that idea.

However, it does show a huge lack of judgement, whether it happened while she was a candidate or an elected official. The power dynamics move it too close to a non-consensual relationship for my tastes. There's a reason most organizations have rules against it.

 

[birdman]

Having an affair with a staffer is not illegal, even if you're a member of Congress. I don't know where people are getting that idea.

However, it does show a huge lack of judgement, whether it happened while she was a candidate or an elected official. The power dynamics move it too close to a non-consensual relationship for my tastes. There's a reason most organizations have rules against it.

My bad, I used the term "illegal" too casually. A congress person having a sexual relationship with a staffer is against Congressional ethics rules which are not exactly laws but do have repercussions if violated.

 

[avalon]

perhaps an unpopular opinion, but a consensual relationship with a staffer doesn't move the needle for me one iota

A relationship that starts out consensual can become not so if the employee believes their job depends on continuing the relationship.

 

[DeacHead]

I'm looking forward to the Showtime after dark series about this whole thing.

Or Vivid's, whichever is first.

 

[Gooner]

A relationship that starts out consensual can become not so if the employee believes their job depends on continuing the relationship.

Unless I’ve missed something, that doesn’t seem to be the case here, there hasn’t been anything that indicates the relationship wasn’t consensual. I am pretty much with Juice here, this seems like an actual nothingburger that has become a “story” because the husband released revenge porn to some fringe right websites. If people think the relationship was inappropriate, that’s great. It probably was. But Hill is likely the victim of an actual crime here, DC has a pretty strict revenge porn statute. And she lost her job because of it. That matters more to me.

 

[Highland Deac]

Having an affair with a staffer is not illegal, even if you're a member of Congress. I don't know where people are getting that idea.

However, it does show a huge lack of judgement, whether it happened while she was a candidate or an elected official. The power dynamics move it too close to a non-consensual relationship for my tastes. There's a reason most organizations have rules against it.

Yeah, when I said illegal I meant that it's against Congressional rules, not that it's illegal in the standard sense of the term. I should have been more clear. It does show poor judgment, which I mentioned. I don't think she should have resigned, though, as it apparently ended before she took office (if I'm incorrect on that, then she was crossing the line.) Whether it would have sunk her for reelection is another story - it would certainly have given any primary or general election opponents some talking points along the lines you suggested.

 

[Pilchard]

Katie Hill seems like a lot of fun...

Perhaps, Congress should consider an ethics rule exception for (non-devils triangle) threesomes with staffers (campaign or otherwise). Quite an achievement; not sure who's interests are being served by making it even more difficult to pull off...

 

[RJKarl]

I just pray Elaine Chao doesn't publish revenge porn on her hubby.

 

[birdman]

I just pray Elaine Chao doesn't publish revenge porn on her hubby.

 

[RJKarl]

:bowrofl: