Donald Impeachment

[BarcaDeac]

surprised there hasn't been more of a talking point along the lines of "It's the Ukraine, who gives a shit?"




(and yes I know the difference in THE Ukraine)

 

[Milhouse]

not really

nobody on your side brought forth one shred of evidence that proved the witnesses were lying

 

[PhDeac]

Yep. In fact, they’re coalescing around saying the House is right but it doesn’t rise to the level of impeachment.

 

[harmoniousmonk]

get over it

 

[birdman]

Do you understand what is going on? The primary argument for no witnesses isn’t factual. It’s that, even if Trump did exactly what he is accused of doing, what he did isn’t a high crime or misdemeanor.

So, what DF is saying is that if the charge was extortion the primary argument would be ‘even if Trump did exactly what he is accused of doing, extortion isn’t a high crime or misdemeanor.’

 

[DistrictDeacon]

Do you understand what is going on? The primary argument for no witnesses isn’t factual. It’s that, even if Trump did exactly what he is accused of doing, what he did isn’t a high crime or misdemeanor.

Right - it's a bogus fucking argument, but what are you going to do?

 

[birdman]

Do you understand what is going on? The primary argument for no witnesses isn’t factual. It’s that, even if Trump did exactly what he is accused of doing, what he did isn’t a high crime or misdemeanor.

Dems could have presented evidence and witness that Trump committed actual treason, and the GOP would say ‘Sure the constitution lists treason specifically as impeachable but the founders didn’t mean this kind of treason...’

 

[THE DEUCE]

well sir actually it is a high crime but keep on keeping on

 

[DDA]

Dems should have charged Extortion.

Regardless, I have no illusions it would have made any difference.

Have you called your party’s reps? Or organized any fellow “troubled” registered republicans? What have you done to speak against the GOP?

 

[PhDeac]

So are the Republicans at #3 or #4?

 

[DDA]

I know.

I’m saying the argument that extortion is sufficient is much stronger than the argument abuse of power is sufficient.

And the counter argument is that it doesn’t matter what the Dems “could have done,” the GOP senators wouldn’t care. Nor would the card carrying GOP voting base. You’re splitting hairs.

 

[Ball State Deac]

Do you understand what is going on? The primary argument for no witnesses isn’t factual. It’s that, even if Trump did exactly what he is accused of doing, what he did isn’t a high crime or misdemeanor.

But what is that conclusion grounded upon? Based on my understanding of the founder's understanding (if that makes sense), this is exactly the kind of thing they had in mind when they were discussing what high crime or misdemeanor is.

 

[birdman]

I know.

I’m saying the argument that extortion is sufficient is much stronger than the argument abuse of power is sufficient.

I know.

I’m saying the strength of the argument is irrelevant to the GOP senators.

 

[deaconson]

You know it. I know it. The gop is admitting they know it. Doesn't matter. Got paid.

 

[Highland Deac]

Dems could have presented evidence and witness that Trump committed actual treason, and the GOP would say ‘Sure the constitution lists treason specifically as impeachable but the founders didn’t mean this kind of treason...’

Yep. It didn't matter what evidence the House Dems were able to present, Senate Republicans were always going to worm their way out of removing him from office. As to why the Democrats pushed impeachment anyway if they knew it would fail in the Senate, the answer is because it was the right thing to do, certainly in the eyes of history. And by "right" I mean that the evidence clearly warrants both impeachment and removal. I suppose some would find that shocking given the cynicism of this age, but there it is.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

literally everything is in the best interests of re-election, which is inherently in the interests of The Nation

 

[DCDeac]

Trump was always going to be acquitted, never a doubt there. Given that reality, the impeachment looks pretty successful. You've got Lamar calling out the President as guilty but telling the voters to take care of it, you have 75% of America angry that no witnesses were allowed, you have over half the country in favor of Trump's removal heading into an election, you have Schiff looking like the smartest guy in the room getting accolades even from Republicans, and you have the time bomb of an angry John Bolton and his book tour set to drop right after the trial ends. Good chance it'll look like finding the murder weapon covered in the defendant's fingerprints wrapped in bloody rags in his trunk a week after he was acquitted on a technicality.

Trump escapes, nothing feels good about his "win." At the same time, the disgust for the Senate's refusal to even consider evidence and the stark reality of Trump's control over the entire elected right has created an odd coalition of actual conservatives and democrats no longer in the political fray. That's a lot of OWG's who'd vote Biden.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

turns out our Constitution is now a joke and Democrats are the ones to blame for bringing the impeachment to bear that has now set the precedent

great job, Boomers

 

[ConnorEl]

So Senator Lamar Alexander thinks withholding congressional aid from an ally in a war with an adversary of the US in order to obtain assistance in a domestic election is "inappropriate" but is not a high crime or misdemeanor.

What would be a high crime or misdemeanor?

Well that depends on the context. If Trump did it, it’s not a high crime or misdemeanor

Bingo.

 

[ConnorEl]

Proud moment for NC last night when Richard Burr, retiring GOP senator with no Trump retribution to face and also the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee asked a question...about the Steele dossier. What a fucking pussy.

Not proud he’s a Deac.