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2020 Democratic Presidential Primary

TownieDeac said:
I just can't find it in myself to muster enthusiasm for Biden, and if it's that or be silent or shitpost, I often choose shitpost.

Would be open to some non-bernie bro troll reasons to be excited about Biden though. Because so much of it for you guys seems to be about owning the bros.
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I don't know anyone who is enthusiastic about Biden. He's an awful candidate. But again, I have a hard time distinguishing between the two selfish septuagenarians who refused to get the fuck out of the way and let legitimate candidates get a chance to run.

I don't agree with a decent bit of Ph's analysis this primary season, especially his love affair with Pete. Pete was another terrible candidate. But he is right in that the progressive movement is doing a solid job of building from the ground up, and that ultimately a Biden presidency and Bernie presidency don't look that different in practice. Both are going to be either a) working with a democratic majority in the house/senate to push progressive legislation; or b) working with a pub majority in the senate and not getting shit done. So the handwringing about how awful Biden is (while ignoring the logs in Bernie's eyes) in the face of the upcoming election doesn't make a ton of sense to me- it looks like arguing just to argue.

That being said, we are going to lose this election whether you shitpost or not, so have at it.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Wonderful job by Bernie staying in the primary to supposedly promote his message that anybody with a pulse is completely aware of and under some fantasy that he still has a narrow path to the nomination. If Trump gets re-elected he should put a picture of Sanders on his office desk in the Oval Office.
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good post.
 
is this a rhetorical move to normalize how uninspiring Biden is or did y'all actually forget that mobilizing the vote involves getting people excited about participating in democratic politics
 
"politics is all about owning posters (who are planning on voting for Biden anyway) on a wake forest message board"

-Habermas probably
 
even when that excitement involves anger directed at another population (2016), it's strange to pretend your candidate doesn't need to inspire people in some way (because you're an adult?)
 
DeaconSig said:
I don't know anyone who is enthusiastic about Biden. He's an awful candidate. But again, I have a hard time distinguishing between the two selfish septuagenarians who refused to get the fuck out of the way and let legitimate candidates get a chance to run.

I don't agree with a decent bit of Ph's analysis this primary season, especially his love affair with Pete. Pete was another terrible candidate. But he is right in that the progressive movement is doing a solid job of building from the ground up, and that ultimately a Biden presidency and Bernie presidency don't look that different in practice. Both are going to be either a) working with a democratic majority in the house/senate to push progressive legislation; or b) working with a pub majority in the senate and not getting shit done. So the handwringing about how awful Biden is (while ignoring the logs in Bernie's eyes) in the face of the upcoming election doesn't make a ton of sense to me- it looks like arguing just to argue.

That being said, we are going to lose this election whether you shitpost or not, so have at it.
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Yea best argument I've seen so far to make Sanders supporters optimistic is that a Biden election helps Dems downticket. Not sure what the Warren Dems are doing at this point in that regard.
 
BillBrasky said:
Keep my taxes low, the poors on the other side of town, and throw me the occasional LBGTQ victory so I can brag to my friends about how progressive my politics are.

- Liberalism in the Age of Corona
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i mean it's probably not a stretch to think that the more progressively minded people on here are directly in or immediate to more precarious situations than the moderates on here, esp. when accounting for one's intersectionality
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
is this a rhetorical move to normalize how uninspiring Biden is or did y'all actually forget that mobilizing the vote involves getting people excited about participating in democratic politics
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literally nothing about Biden's strategy in primaries or the general was about GOTV
 
Enthusiasm is fine, but we just saw practical voting overwhelm enthusiasm in the primary. Same can happen in the general.

How many presidential candidates have you all enthusiastically voted for? It's one for me. If Democrats are required to be enthusiastic, we'll always lose.
 
I've voted for only two different candidates in my lifetime. Obama enthusiastically once, then unenthusiastically. Then Clinton unenthusiastically. Can't wait to continue the unenthusiastic voting.
 
i cannot condemn the forced binary between practical voting and enthusiastic voting strongly enough. that's a bizarre way to structure political thought. it's not either/or (several of the candidates this cycle demonstrated that, for example) and it's dangerous because primarily because it leads to a defense of logic like you offer: "If Democrats are required to be enthusiastic, we'll always lose." which (1) implicitly resigns the party to (so far!) nominate the "practical" choice and (2) minimizes participation in democratic politics on the whole (ChrisL likened it to a child's action!) - the very thing you need to do to win an election
 
But the "more enthusiastic" supporters/voters don't show up in big enough numbers to win big primaries. If Bernie has so much enthusiasm, why doesn't he win?
 
because enthusiasm doesn't get you paid time off to vote or otherwise re-enfranchise you

because young people are stupid and don't vote
 
reminds me of the time that Townie asked the CT how their political views had changed over the last few years and if their political action had increased as a result and RJ immediately responded chastised him for opening space to brag (as if that wasn't already an occasional function of the CT).

the idea that a vote for a practical national candidate is the limit of democratic politics seems like the largest ideological gulf between "progressives" and "moderates" on the left.
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
the idea that a vote for a practical national candidate is the limit of democratic politics seems like the largest ideological gulf between "progressives" and "moderates" on the left.
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I also think that for the most part, via experience, people over 35 think, or in some cases know the only way to achieve anything in politics is through compromise. They look at Sanders record of lack of compromise and see that isn't how things have gotten accomplished in politics during their lifetimes or otherwise. Therefore, even if they're every bit as progressive as a leftist, their theory of change is incremental by definition, and through compromise.

I think people under 35 are starved for a different theory of change, and Hillary and Biden aren't that. But things like Sunrise Movement and generally organizations who will have them suggest change can happen outside presidential politics, and that's where you see political participation outside of voting. Boomers and Gen Xers are suspicious of that theory of change for good reason, but it doesn't really do to fling shit at one another. Older voters will patronize younger voters, younger voters will get discouraged, and eventually turn into older voters who shit on younger voters. Assuming nothing ever changes, that is.
 
I think after all is said and done; this pandemic will end up helping Trump. It's sidelining Biden, making it hard to fundraise when Trump has a $ advantage, going to make it difficult to register voters, make it difficult for people to vote, etc. This will all help the incumbent. I think people will ultimately reflect that Trump did a shit job with all this, but I don't think it's likely to change minds of people who were going to vote for him anyways.
 
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