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Coronavirus !!! Very Political Thread !!!

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We need contact tracing. We have over 20% of the working-age population currently out of work, This seems to be a solution that even theReff and Brad could understand, but for some reason our federal leadership cannot.
 
The second trump takes a proactive stance to try and manage this, a clear mark will have been set against which it will be easy to measure the success of his actions. Obviously he doesn’t want to do the work to take a leadership stance like this, and that inaction will lead to a failure against that mark. He can’t afford that failure to be re-elected so he’s choosing to do nothing and snipe at real leaders on twitter like a child and republicans are happy to defend this.
 
Perhaps an oversimplification, but the US had two choices:

- Shutdown to use the time to develop a comprehensive testing, tracing and isolation system which really isolates the virus to small spikes (like South Korea, where they are returning to normalcy); it would be massively expensive and require foresight, organization and planning, but there would be light at the end of the tunnel and a common goal for everyone to push toward.
- Require social distancing measures, but choose not to shutdown and rely on the herd immunity theory (like Sweden where they are also returning to normalcy) and accept the fact that we would have a huge spike in deaths in March and April and that our healthcare system would be forced to neglect a huge number of those suffering and dying.

The US was never going to accept option 2; so, the US had to go full-on with option 1.

Instead, the US went forward with a semi-shutdown which shattered the economy and slowed the virus, but we failed to use the time to develop the infrastructure for a massive, testing and tracing effort to isolate the virus. So, all we did was extend the duration of that the virus, ensured that the epidemic will be an ever-present concern in our lives and acted to lengthen the time that it will devastate the economy.

Now, our leadership will never ever admit their mistakes rather than mitigate those mistakes by taking the steps to organize a late nationwide testing, tracing and isolation program, the solution is to just try to push for a re-opening on a state by state basis and hope that the Summer weather and drugs find a solution before the second wave hits. Great.

Oh yeah, also, blame China as if we are the 10 year-old child relying on the "well, he started it" argument.
 
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birdman said:
What good are test? One day you can test someone and they don’t have it and then just a few days later you can test the same person and suddenly they have it? First they didn’t have it, and then they had it!?!? So what good are the tests?
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My God.

This is almost verbatim to Trump's rant after Stephen Miller's wife tested positive.

And, it's just as stupid the second time around.
 
Junebug said:
Yeah, I'm not really getting this either. It was "wrong," I guess, in that fewer people died than we thought would in the initial wave, but isn't the consensus that that happened because, despite the images of idiot college kids partying at Daytona, the American people actually did a decent job of social distancing? And that we haven't had the dramatic downslope of confirmed cases because (1) we didn't have as dramatic of an upslope and (2) the increase in testing has resulted in the identification of more confirmed positive cases than we were able to identify 6 weeks ago?
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Is the initial wave over? We are at >83,000 mortalities after only about 8 weeks since we hit 100 detected cases in the US with between 1000-3000 deaths daily. When does the first wave end and the second wave start?
 
Junebug said:
Yeah, I'm not really getting this either. It was "wrong," I guess, in that fewer people died than we thought would in the initial wave, but isn't the consensus that that happened because, despite the images of idiot college kids partying at Daytona and MAGA nuts who #notsocialdistancing, the American people actually did a decent job of social distancing? And that we haven't had the dramatic downslope of confirmed cases because (1) we didn't have as dramatic of an upslope and (2) the increase in testing has resulted in the identification of more confirmed positive cases than we were able to identify 6 weeks ago?
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FIFY
 
centerdeac said:
Fauci is a career ass. He was wrong on flattening the curve and is fucking clueless as Trump or any other politicos. Taking the extreme position that nothing should open for months and months gives you the "if they only listened to me defense."

The models sucked. Trump was/is full of shit. 100,000s of people are going to die regardless.

The damage to society is much larger. Businesses have been killed. Workers fucked. The debt is an unmitigated disaster.

Schools need to reopen in the fall. Spring "education" has retarded the growth of a generation of students.

Wear masks. Wash hands. Social distance. But the shutdown ends at some point and no credible person has said when, so at some point realizing what's happening, you have to take a utilitarian perspective. I don't know any more than these talking heads, or any less. But no school in the fall is absurd.
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Is this sarcasm?
 
birdman said:
Is the initial wave over? We are at >83,000 mortalities after only about 8 weeks since we hit 100 detected cases in the US with between 1000-3000 deaths daily. When does the first wave end and the second wave start?
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Is that the significance of August 4?

The way things are going, we are going to just glide into the second wave without every really seeing a significant drop in deaths.
 
centerdeac said:
Fauci is a career ass. He was wrong on flattening the curve and is fucking clueless as Trump or any other politicos. Taking the extreme position that nothing should open for months and months gives you the "if they only listened to me defense."

The models sucked. Trump was/is full of shit. 100,000s of people are going to die regardless.

The damage to society is much larger. Businesses have been killed. Workers fucked. The debt is an unmitigated disaster.

Schools need to reopen in the fall. Spring "education" has retarded the growth of a generation of students.

Wear masks. Wash hands. Social distance. But the shutdown ends at some point and no credible person has said when, so at some point realizing what's happening, you have to take a utilitarian perspective. I don't know any more than these talking heads, or any less. But no school in the fall is absurd.
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You morons seems to not understand one fundamental concept when it comes to the economy. If we reopen and cases explode again (which with no testing they would) demand will be diminished and retail businesses will be forced to declare bankruptcy. Most that aren't large cap companies run on thin margins to begin with. Cautiously waiting to reopen the economy and having robust testing/tracing in place is the only way demand comes back to the point where retail businesses won't go under.
 
As far as public health goes, this epidemic has exposed a glaring weakness in federalism. There is a reason why places like Austria and S Korea have contained and appear on the upswing while we aren't.
 
Liquid Karma said:
As far as public health goes, this epidemic has exposed a glaring weakness in federalism. There is a reason why places like Austria and S Korea have contained and appear on the upswing while we aren't.
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This isn't a weakness in federalism. The Federal government has the power to handle the issue. Unfortunately, that power is in the hands of an malevolent and incompetent moron who refuses to wield it properly. If you put Trump in charge of Austria or South Korea, he would have screwed those people just as much he screwed us.
 
WakeForestRanger said:
This isn't a weakness in federalism. The Federal government has the power to handle the issue. Unfortunately, that power is in the hands of an malevolent and incompetent moron who refuses to wield it properly. If you put Trump in charge of Austria or South Korea, he would have screwed those people just as much he screwed us.
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I think you are both right: this isn't a weakness inherent in federalism (insofar as federalism can acknowledge there are certain cases where federal command and control is appropriate (national defense, environmental protection and, yes, pandemics)) but taking a federalist approach to this, which is a problem that requires a nationally coordinated response, results in a fiasco.

No one should let Trump hide behind a claim of federalism. This is just incompetence, pure and simple.
 
Incompetence of not only Trump, but of Jared Kushner, as we have learned is in charge of this response and has Trump's full confidence. We know Trump doesn't read the information or pay attention to the briefings, and relies on his instincts. And all of his decision-making is based on the transactional lens he views everything through, and has relied on his entire life.

And I would hold the GOP as a whole -the elected representatives as well as its voters - responsible for allowing this admin to operate with impunity.

Fuck all y'all
 
Pilchard said:
Perhaps an oversimplification, but the US had two choices:

- Shutdown to use the time to develop a comprehensive testing, tracing and isolation system which really isolates the virus to small spikes (like South Korea, where they are returning to normalcy); it would be massively expensive and require foresight, organization and planning, but there would be light at the end of the tunnel and a common goal for everyone to push toward.
- Require social distancing measures, but choose not to shutdown and rely on the herd immunity theory (like Sweden where they are also returning to normalcy) and accept the fact that we would have a huge spike in deaths in March and April and that our healthcare system would be forced to neglect a huge number of those suffering and dying.

The US was never going to accept option 2; so, the US had to go full-on with option 1.

Instead, the US went forward with a semi-shutdown which shattered the economy and slowed the virus, but we failed to use the time to develop the infrastructure for a massive, testing and tracing effort to isolate the virus. So, all we did was extend the duration of that the virus, ensured that the epidemic will be an ever-present concern in our lives and acted to lengthen the time that it will devastate the economy.

Now, our leadership will never ever admit their mistakes rather than mitigate those mistakes by taking the steps to organize a late nationwide testing, tracing and isolation program, the solution is to just try to push for a re-opening on a state by state basis and hope that the Summer weather and drugs find a solution before the second wave hits. Great.

Oh yeah, also, blame China as if we are the 10 year-old child relying on the "well, he started it" argument.
Click to expand...

The GOP has become the "well, he started it" party. Literally everything can be blamed on someone or something else, especially LibDems. Hell, they blame the Dems for electing Trump all the time.
 
Junebug said:
I think you are both right: this isn't a weakness inherent in federalism (insofar as federalism can acknowledge there are certain cases where federal command and control is appropriate (national defense, environmental protection and, yes, pandemics)) but taking a federalist approach to this, which is a problem that requires a nationally coordinated response, results in a fiasco.

No one should let Trump hide behind a claim of federalism. This is just incompetence, pure and simple.
Click to expand...

taking a federalist approach to this resulted in a fiasco because of trump, not because of a federalist approach
 
WakeandBake said:
Incompetence of not only Trump, but of Jared Kushner, as we have learned is in charge of this response and has Trump's full confidence. We know Trump doesn't read the information or pay attention to the briefings, and relies on his instincts. And all of his decision-making is based on the transactional lens he views everything through, and has relied on his entire life.

And I would hold the GOP as a whole -the elected representatives as well as its voters - responsible for allowing this admin to operate with impunity.

Fuck all y'all
Click to expand...

Well when Kusher's net worth is tied to apartment buildings filled with tenants who can't pay their rent and office buildings where the tenants can't pay their rent, it's really not hard to see how we end up in a well if ten million are gonna die we might as well get it over with approach. What would have helped is if he had invested in a lot of nursing homes.
 
PhDeac said:
Is that the significance of August 4?

The way things are going, we are going to just glide into the second wave without every really seeing a significant drop in deaths.
Click to expand...

We’ve had 1.41 million confirmed cases, 84k deaths and about 245k patients recovered fully, so that means we currently have 1.1 million unresolved cases. I’m not sure we can say the “wave” is over yet when 75% of the cases are unresolved.
 
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