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2020 Presidential Election: Biden v. Trump

DeacMan said:
Blaming the victim is never a smart move. People in Alpena county Michigan have family and friends and lives like everyone else. It was the single dumbest thing a candidate for President could say. Bernie had already torched her with these same voters. She paid them no mind and lost them - twice.
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DeacMan, I don't know if you're being willfully ignorant here but Hillary Clinton didn't say rural voters are deplorable. People heard her describe two groups of Trump voters and decided for themselves they were deplorables, not hard working people frustrated with government.

And what are racists, xenophobes, and homophobes victims of, DeacMan?

What a nonsense talking point. Hillary saw how Trump was enabling white supremacists and called it out. I don't understand why anybody who isn't a white supremacist would have a problem with that.
 
Hillary wasn’t wrong, she was pretty accurately describing the ideology of a lot of Republican voters, she just shouldn’t have said it. It was bulletin board material that did nothing to help her cause. I’m not calling anyone that voted for Trump a victim, I’m just saying that it’s ignorant and unnecessary to generalize rural areas as Trump supporting when the majority of adults there didn’t vote for him.
 
I don’t know why it is that liberals, at least the ones I talk to, dismiss and ignore the large percentage of American non-voters. You just can’t accurately analyze American culture through politics without considering non-voters, and how political participation intersects with demographic factors. The truth is that American politics would be much much different if we had compulsory voting.
 
Hillary was dumb to make the deplorable comment but 100% correct about who she was talking about. The problem is that Hillary not only pissed off the rural white socially conservative voters, her campaign and the DNC also alienated the progressive wing of the party by running a sham primary. It was a double whammy of ignorance and arrogance. There's a reason why DWS has been frozen out of the party.
 
Paul Hogan said:
So if my neighbor votes for Trump, I'm responsible for it ?

What if my neighbor doesn't pay his taxes or runs a red light ?
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Again, your mindset is the problem. I’m not blaming you, or saying you are responsible for your neighbor - I’m pointing out the hypocrisy and error of blaming people by proximity, or taking credit by proximity. In the discussion against the electoral college we always say “land doesn’t vote” well, that also holds true here. City streets don’t vote and country roads don’t vote. I should not get credit or scorn for my neighbors votes.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Again, your mindset is the problem. I’m not blaming you, or saying you are responsible for your neighbor - I’m pointing out the hypocrisy and error of blaming people by proximity, or taking credit by proximity. In the discussion against the electoral college we always say “land doesn’t vote” well, that also holds true here. City streets don’t vote and country roads don’t vote. I should not get credit or scorn for my neighbors votes.
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Okay, but, your argument is that rural poor people don't vote. So can we Scorn them for that ? or do they get a pass because they didn't have time to vote ? or is it fair to implicitly lump them in with Trump voters becasue every poor white person I ever interact around the whole state of North Carolina wasn't going to show up to vote for Obama or Hillary if their life depended on it.
 
Paul Hogan said:
Okay, but, your argument is that rural poor people don't vote. So can we Scorn them for that ? or do they get a pass because they didn't have time to vote ? or is it fair to implicitly lump them in with Trump voters becasue every poor white person I ever interact around the whole state of North Carolina wasn't going to show up to vote for Obama or Hillary if their life depended on it.
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My argument is that poor people don’t vote, and fuck no you shouldn’t scorn them for it. I’ve been hearing for the last 5 years that leftists and Bernie bros scorning Moderate Democrats only hurt Bernies cause. Is that not a universal truth? Or do you suddenly think scorn is a successful way to get out the vote?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Gallup had Trump at a 46% approval rating nationally this September. Backwards ass, rural 85% white Davidson County voted for Trump at 40%.So there must be some curious demographic data point, beyond “rural” that explains exactly which white people are carrying water for Trump.

We really need to kill this stupid generalization that every white who lives outside a suburb is automatically a hateful racist yokel. It’s not true, and making sweeping cultural insults and condemnations of entire regions actually hurts the Democratic cause by providing common cause between rural Republican voters and rural non-voters. We need those votes, and shitting on the people who live there, for mere proximity, is fucking stupid.
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You realize that with a population of 168,000 that Davidson County is the 17th most populous county in NC, right ? Lexington, NC is clearly not a rural area, although it is close to rural areas in Davidson County and much of the county may be considered suburban, depending on what definition is being used.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
My argument is that poor people don’t vote, and fuck no you shouldn’t scorn them for it. I’ve been hearing for the last 5 years that leftists and Bernie bros scorning Moderate Democrats only hurt Bernies cause. Is that not a universal truth? Or do you suddenly think scorn is a successful way to get out the vote?
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Well begging them or asking them to vote in their best interests hasn't exactly worked.
 
So what should Democrats do about poor rural Americans who don't vote aside from pass policies to help them?
 
Paul Hogan said:
Well begging them or asking them to vote in their best interests hasn't exactly worked.
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What are their "best interests"? And how has it "not worked". It didn't work in 2016. It did work quite well in 2008. Again, 2016 is a big outlier. And many on the left presume to think it wasn't because of Hillary. Go back and look at results even from 2000. The same trends hold. She remains the outlier in terms of support with rural voters. She offered them nothing. Trump and Bernie came at them with populist messages.

You can scream that it was all smoke and mirrors. That's a different discussion/question than why did Clinton engage so poorly with such a large voting block.
 
DeacMan said:
What are their "best interests"? And how has it "not worked". It didn't work in 2016. It did work quite well in 2008. Again, 2016 is a big outlier. And many on the left presume to think it wasn't because of Hillary. Go back and look at results even from 2000. The same trends hold. She remains the outlier in terms of support with rural voters. She offered them nothing. Trump and Bernie came at them with populist messages.

You can scream that it was all smoke and mirrors. That's a different discussion/question than why did Clinton engage so poorly with such a large voting block.
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Progressive populism is the way of the future, but sadly its still way too difficult to unite poor whites and blacks politically. Anyway want to re-boot the Fusionist movement with me? It was super dope until the benefactors of UNC-Chapel Hill showed up and slaughtered hundreds of innocent black people.
 
Paul Hogan said:
Okay, but, your argument is that rural poor people don't vote. So can we Scorn them for that ? or do they get a pass because they didn't have time to vote ? or is it fair to implicitly lump them in with Trump voters becasue every poor white person I ever interact around the whole state of North Carolina wasn't going to show up to vote for Obama or Hillary if their life depended on it.
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You are aware that Barrack Obama did a gazillion points better with rural voters in both 2008 and 2012 than Hillary did in 2016, right? Or are you saying there are large enclaves of rich and non-white voters in Door county, Wisconsin?
 
Feel like it’s an appropriate time to drop this:

 
DeacMan said:
You are aware that Barrack Obama did a gazillion points better with rural voters in both 2008 and 2012 than Hillary did in 2016, right? Or are you saying there are large enclaves of rich and non-white voters in Door county, Wisconsin?
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No I'm not aware of that. Hillary just sucks though and I have a hard time believing that they're not all in for Trump because when I drive down a rural highway in NC or SC all I see is Trump signs.
 
Paul Hogan said:
No I'm not aware of that. Hillary just sucks though and I have a hard time believing that they're not all in for Trump because when I drive down a rural highway in NC or SC all I see is Trump signs.
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2016 - 2004 - various rural counties. HRC laid a giant turd. Biden won't. Signs don't vote.

Hocking County OH - Clinton 29%, Obama ~49%, Obama 48%, Kerry 47%

Ross County OH - Clinton 34%, Obama, 49% Obama 45%, Kerry 44%

Meigs County, OH - Clinton 23%, Obama 40%, Obama ~40%, Kerry 41%

Door County, WI - Clinton 45%, Obama 53%, Obama 58%, Kerry 48%

Florence County, WI - Clinton 25%, Obama 37%, Obama 42%, Kerry 36%

Grant County, WI - Clinton 41%, Obama 56%, Obama 61%, Kerry 51%

Bayfield County, WI - Clinton 51%, Obama 62%, Obama 63%, Kerry 60%

Houghton County, MI - Clinton 38%, Obama 44%, Obama 47%, Kerry 42%

Muskegon County, MI - Clinton 47%, Obama 58%, 64%, Kerry 55%

Alpena County, MI - Clinton 33%, Obama 47%, Obama 51%, Kerry 47%
 
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