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Official 2020-21 NBA Finals - Milwaukee Bucks win the NBA Championship!

meh, I never thought Doc held the clippers back.

2013-2014: Chris Paul had an all time boneheaded play going for a shooting foul in game 5 looking for a 3pt play from 80 feet away and coughed it up (I was in the upper deck mid court during this, it was the most painful thing I ever watched). They lost by 1. That ain't on doc, and is cp3's worst professional moment.



2014-2015: The entire supporting cast (Redick, Barnes, Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers) completely shat the bed on the 3-1 collapse vs Houston. There was no alternatives here, play Dahntay Jones? Ya can't fade the Josh Smith resurgence.

2015-2016: Freak Chris Paul injury breaking his hand, Blake also injured

2016-2017: Blake injured his knee in game 3

I'm not sure how Doc was responsible for any of this.
 
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TownieDeac said:
Congrats on an excellent offseason acquisition of Al Horford, Ayo
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I...don't think the Sixers are really any further along than the team that got swept by the Celtics in the 1st round in the bubble. Seth Curry is a nice ancillary piece and congrats on doing well in the (increasingly meaningless) regular season and getting the #1 seed.

Well, Simmons' value now is probably about 20% of what it was last offseason, so probably worse off actually.
 
Draft Jahlil Okafor
Draft Ben Simmons (and then not trade him before the league realizes he's useless in playoff basketball)
Trade up to #1 and draft Markelle Fultz
Trade Bridges for Zhaire Smith and a 1st rounder

Besides the Embiid pick, what else have they done right during The Process? I'm 1000% a smart ass when it comes to the Sixers, but sort of genuinely curious.

(And to be clear, I'm not 2&2 on this. I'm for the most part a proponent of the philosophy of The Process, but man did they butcher it at nearly every turn)
 
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Dali Llama said:
Draft Jahlil Okafor
Sam Hinkie fired
Draft Ben Simmons
Trade up to #1 and draft Markelle Fultz
Trade Bridges for Zhaire Smith and a 1st rounder

Besides the Embiid pick, what else have they done right during The Process? I'm 1000% a smart ass when it comes to the Sixers, but sort of genuinely curious.

(And to be clear, I'm not 2&2 on this. I'm for the most part a proponent of the philosophy of The Process, but man did they butcher it at nearly every turn)
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The Process was Sam Hinkie's doing. He was fired after the first thing you listed, then we had the league implanted Colangelos and his burner account running things
 
Official 2020-21 NBA Conference Finals - Suns/Clips and Bucks/Hawks

The most basic problem with the Process is they kept drafting bigs to win playoffs oriented around wings and now ball dominant guards.

Hinkie isn’t absolved because he made it clear Philly was tanking for high picks. That makes a mockery of the league and they came down on him for it. You get picks by making savvy front office moves, by giving up assets that aren’t that valuable to get more in return.

He’s the guy who traded Jrue to get Noel and then drafted MCW. That’s how he started The Process. Now if he had picked CJ and Giannis, they would have been well on their way.

The Hawks outdid The Process by just getting younger and clearing cap space with good trades. The #19 picks in back to back drafts and a veteran sign and trade propelled them to the ECF while Trae was struggling.
 
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Sam Presti is basically running the process playbook right now
 
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sorry townie I love Jojo but I very much dislike Ben Simmons
 
buckets said:
Sam Presti is basically running the process playbook right now
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Hoarding picks, yes. I might be wrong but were the sixers ever a rehab center for player value? End goal is the same, but method seems different.
 
Oh man, takes

The process worked in the sense of maximizing chances at top picks and finding value grinding up assets and turning them into more valuable assets

It didn’t work in the sense of drafting well when presented with those picks or creating a long championship window with two superstars. Palma is right, Hinkie had the roadmap but they fired him before he could execute. And anyway the Sixers are on a new coach and two+ GMs later and quite a ways removed from the start of the process, so eventually we can probably stop relitigating it. Maybe. When Embiid retires or something.
 
stugotz said:
meh, I never thought Doc held the clippers back.

2013-2014: Chris Paul had an all time boneheaded play going for a shooting foul in game 5 looking for a 3pt play from 80 feet away and coughed it up (I was in the upper deck mid court during this, it was the most painful thing I ever watched). They lost by 1. That ain't on doc, and is cp3's worst professional moment.



2014-2015: The entire supporting cast (Redick, Barnes, Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers) completely shat the bed on the 3-1 collapse vs Houston. There was no alternatives here, play Dahntay Jones? Ya can't fade the Josh Smith resurgence.

2015-2016: Freak Chris Paul injury breaking his hand, Blake also injured

2016-2017: Blake injured his knee in game 3

I'm not sure how Doc was responsible for any of this.
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I agree. Doc gets a bum rap. He's a good coach.

I had forgotten completely about that game, but as strange as that first turnover looks by CP3, he is clearly looking to fire a pass to a teammate down court in the corner. His eyes are looking down that way, so there is no chance he was trying to draw a shooting foul 80 feet from the basket. Look again. Now...who knows if the guy he is looking at is actually open, and it could have been picked off, so jumping up there to pass or do whatever, is not good, but that is not a shot motion at all.

That last turnover is really bad, clear over penetration and I've noticed he LEARNED from those types of bad mistakes and now he just jukes a little with his dribble, and shoots the fall away shot from the right hash, in that spot, instead of completely over penetrating. Still an easy help defense that he drove right into - I agree that second turnover is not good at all.
 
Impressive performance by Embiid, to play all those minutes and dominate on 1 leg.

Dude will have surgery on that knee soon, really incredible he did not injure even more.

Also, Ben Simmons can distribute, but taking only 4 shots? Seems like he could ISO or post up some and get at least 7-8 shots up.

I don't think the Hawks can do it, without Hunter, but they keep proving everyone wrong.
 
TenaciousKory said:
sorry townie I love Jojo but I very much dislike Ben Simmons
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Ben Simmons still has the same holes in his game that he had in college when Wake beat LSU. Wake put a much shorter but quicker guard (C.J. Harris?) on Simmons. The guard played off Simmons, allowing him to shoot from outside, but not drive. It worked. Simmons had a "bad game" and Wake beat LSU. One of the few good coaching games of the lost decade. NBA teams have added intentional fouling to the repetoire.

Until he learns to shoot, Simmons is not going to be an elite complete player.
 
TownieDeac said:
Oh man, takes

The process worked in the sense of maximizing chances at top picks and finding value grinding up assets and turning them into more valuable assets

It didn’t work in the sense of drafting well when presented with those picks or creating a long championship window with two superstars. Palma is right, Hinkie had the roadmap but they fired him before he could execute. And anyway the Sixers are on a new coach and two+ GMs later and quite a ways removed from the start of the process, so eventually we can probably stop relitigating it. Maybe. When Embiid retires or something.
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The concept of Hinkie as some kind of martyr is hysterical. Dude is a bigger fraud than Simmons. Obviously I have said it for years, but The Process was simply a long con to cover up his utterly and completely horrible drafting abilities. That's it, nothing more, and Philly fans were predictably duped for years. And the results have borne that out. Regardless of when he got fired, had it even remotely worked the results would be more than simply Embiid, but he is the only thing they have to show for it, which given the number of picks was more luck than anything. Which again, was Hinkie's point - hope for luck rather than rely on ability. As Ph has pointed out, plenty of other teams have turned their franchises around with much less losing and in significantly less time by simply drafting well and making halfway decent FA and trade moves.

Simmons is a damn joke and wasted talent. I'd probably rescind my Rozier for Simmons trade offer, I think that may be too much to give up for Simmons at this point. Fucking Gallo, one of the biggest pussies in the league, realized he could exploit a size mismatch and take his defender down low over and over; yet Simmons can't do the same? Why is he out there? There is no reason why Simmons can't do everything that JC does, but watching the two of them it is so easy to see how much heart matters in a game like that.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
I feel like it's tough to have your best player be a big man in today's NBA
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I don't think it would be if the 2nd best player is a great guard. If the sixers had Mitchell/Booker/Beal/Murray, maybe even Fox, I think they whoop the Hawks. But when your 2nd and 3rd best players are both PFs without much ability to create their own shots, it is a problem.

I mean, the Nuggets would have had as good a shot as anyone to win the championship this year with a healthy Murray.
 
I feel like this is the third or fourth time we've scrutinized the Process and it always seems like two groups talking past each other: a successful Process (1) results in a championship or (2) results in maximizing picks.

I don't think there's a single strategy that can guarantee a championship so it seems really weird to hold the Process to the first.
 
TenaciousKory said:
I feel like this is the third or fourth time we've scrutinized the Process and it always seems like two groups talking past each other: a successful Process (1) results in a championship or (2) results in maximizing picks.

I don't think there's a single strategy that can guarantee a championship so it seems really weird to hold the Process to the first.
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I think the third expectation would be that the Process results in either a quicker rebuilding process than a traditional focus on drafting well while generally trying to win (excluding certain end-of-season tank scenarios), or it results in a longer window of contention before having to do it over again. Again I don't think it has worked. It has taken a long-ass time to get to this point, and the window was pretty short before this implosion which effectively closes it. They have to jettison Simmons at this point, which to me ends it. Embiid is still just the one lucky pick.
 
Deaconblue said:
Ben Simmons still has the same holes in his game that he had in college when Wake beat LSU. Wake put a much shorter but quicker guard (C.J. Harris?) on Simmons. The guard played off Simmons, allowing him to shoot from outside, but not drive. It worked. Simmons had a "bad game" and Wake beat LSU. One of the few good coaching games of the lost decade. NBA teams have added intentional fouling to the repetoire.

Until he learns to shoot, Simmons is not going to be an elite complete player.
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If you can’t shoot when you get to the NBA, you will never be able to shoot.
 
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