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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

TownieDeac said:
And come 2024 we’re going to have to vote harder than we’ve ever voted in our lives
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you guys actually vote? Seems like a lot of effort for no reason. Only vote I ever made was for a coworker, cause I knew the guy.
 
Kinda weird for longtime Wake fans who watch most every game to deride taking some time every few months to vote because it doesn’t pay off enough.
 
TownieDeac said:
I suppose I rarely take the time to think through and write something that is meant to change anyone’s mind or be overly pragmatic and reasonable given my feelings and emotions about material politics.

During Covid I’ve ruminated a lot on the Michael Brooks quote “be ruthless with systems, be kind to people.” Whenever I see people railing on anti vaxxers or vaccinated people who aren’t willing to mask or vaxxed and masked people who aren’t willing to stay home, I return back to that quote and think about how miserably our government failed us. I feel the same about trump voters or individual politicians, which is to say sympathetic to their humanity and angry at the system who failed them. It doesn’t excuse bad behavior or attitude or belief.

I understand this isn’t a heuristic that works for everyone too. For me it’s far easier to direct my anger at systems than individuals, perhaps because I would like to be afforded the same grace. If I’ve directed an ad hominem at you it was misdirected. I just know a better world is possible.
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I'm pretty much the opposite - I'm kind to people (outside of certain shitbags on message boards), but I fully blame them for their idiocy/evil and the state of the country. You can't tell me that people like JH and Junebug don't know any better and would have different views if the government somehow messaged things differently. And, if I had your worldview, the system I would blame is the right wing media machine and Christianity.
 
Shooshmoo said:
I'm kind to people (outside of certain shitbags on message boards), but I fully blame them for their idiocy/evil and the state of the country.
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people in power, especially those who misuse it, love this mentality.
 
If you don’t know trump voters or anti vaxxers in your immediate family or close friends that you care about and love I feel sad for your sheltered life

They are some of the best and most generous people I know, and hating them for their beliefs no matter how much we disagree is not something I can reconcile
 
TenaciousKory said:
people in power, especially those who misuse it, love this mentality.
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I believe that citizens who have the time, energy, and education to follow politics have a responsibility for political systems. That’s the entire premise of electoralism. Political and economic systems are built by people and are made up of people.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Townie gives up.

Seems shitty to think someone is “best” and “generous” because of how they treat their family, their in-group, and maybe how they take pity on the poors while being for keeping them poor.

You can love people while acknowledging their massive flaws.
 
Yea I just don’t think having conservative views is a personality flaw just as I’d hope people wouldn’t think my leftist views or my Wake fandom are so central to my being that they flaw my essential character
 
TownieDeac said:
If you don’t know trump voters or anti vaxxers in your immediate family or close friends that you care about and love I feel sad for your sheltered life
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I mean this is a little silly. Everybody’s life circumstances are different and not having anti-vaxxers among your loved ones doesn’t really mean living a sheltered life.
 
Sheltered is a tough word because of its connotations but I understand the point Townie is trying to make - probably because my family is Trump-focused.
 
TownieDeac said:
Yea I just don’t think having conservative views is a personality flaw just as I’d hope people wouldn’t think my leftist views or my Wake fandom are so central to my being that they flaw my essential character
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Given what modern American conservatism means, I kind of do see it as a personality flaw. It doesn’t mean I would cut somebody out of my life (at least for that alone). We love people despite their personality flaws when we have a shared history with them.
 
Trump voters and anti-vaxxers get simplified just like they simplify "libs" in order to make broad stroke conclusions about very real and sometimes confused human beings.
 
TownieDeac said:
If you don’t know trump voters or anti vaxxers in your immediate family or close friends that you care about and love I feel sad for your sheltered life

They are some of the best and most generous people I know, and hating them for their beliefs no matter how much we disagree is not something I can reconcile
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PhDeac said:
Seems shitty to think someone is “best” and “generous” because of how they treat their family, their in-group, and maybe how they take pity on the poors while being for keeping them poor.

You can love people while acknowledging their massive flaws.
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Yeah, I tend to agree with ph on this one. I have family who do not share my world view or political persuasion. While I care about them, I am not naive enough to think that those of them who believe that President Obama was not an American citizen or that Bill Gates created Covid are good folks. I've had plenty of conversations with them to know they are, by in large, not.

That doesn't mean I do not try and assist them if they need help, but I am honest about who they are and how they may impact the rest of the world.
 
You think someone is a bad person because they think Bill Gates created COVID?
 
PhDeac said:
Seems shitty to think someone is “best” and “generous” because of how they treat their family, their in-group, and maybe how they take pity on the poors while being for keeping them poor.

You can love people while acknowledging their massive flaws.
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This is a wonderful sentiment. Good post.
 
I like to divide people into two categories the engaged and the unengaged. If you just go about your life and the circumstances within it lead you to a certain view that you don’t really ever think about then there’s room in my life for you. If you are actively engaged in the thinking and that’s what shapes you, be it homophobic, anti-vax and so forth then there is absolutely no room in my life for you, it’s too short to engage with people like that. I have absolutely nobody I interact with, see or talk to that isn’t vaccinated, and If they were previously apprehensive I always open myself to talking with them, and if they can’t get passed that and would still engage in Facebook research then fuck them they would be out of my life.
 
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