the official new supreme court thread - Very political

[WakeBored]

Notice how Junebug and jhmd think encouraging desegregation is "divvying us up by race."

But they're cool with redlining, neighborhood segregation, school segregation due to charters and privates, etc.

Notice how Trimp tries to frame "affirmative action" as "encouraging desegregation." Framing is how someone tries to proceed when he knows he can't prevail on the actual merits.

 

[Shooshmoo]

Just so we are clear, UNC has not attempted to justify its policy on the ground that it is intended to "undo centuries of exclusion of other races from white society institutions." Instead, UNC's sole justification are the alleged “educational benefits of diversity.” In other words, they are justifying the policy on the ground that it is good for the education of both White and non-White people for them to be in class together and, to accomplish that goal, they have to have a sufficient critical mass of non-White people.

That's it. That's the justification. Lessons we learned in Kindergarten.

Calling bullshit that you ever learned that lesson. They have to posture it this way -- if they mention it is meant to undo past harms racists like you will seize on that as an additional reason to shut it down.

Bottom line is that this is all settled law (for about 4 decades) that the extremist activists on the court -- who got their majority via cheating like they do in everything else - will happily ignore.

 

[Liquid Karma]

If only we had some evidence as to actual results when AA efforts are disallowed…

In California they saw a noticeable drop in Native American, African American, and Latino students and a big jump in Asian students.

 

[Shooshmoo]

Notice how Trimp tries to frame "affirmative action" as "encouraging desegregation." Framing is how someone tries to proceed when he knows he can't prevail on the actual merits.

Merits have been settled for four decades, hack.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Notice how Trimp tries to frame "affirmative action" as "encouraging desegregation." Framing is how someone tries to proceed when he knows he can't prevail on the actual merits.

You’ve literally spent this entire discussion “framing” AA as racism and demeaning for Black people.

 

[PhDeac]

Junebug's assertion that affirmative action policies breed inferiority is bullshit. If undeserved opportunities made people feel inferior, more white guys would feel inferior, yet they don't.

It makes no sense for a white UNC student to look at the only Black student in their class and think, "they don't belong." The math doesn't even work out. Black people make up 21% of the NC population and 11% of the UNC student population. Black students are severely underrepresented at UNC. If you think there should even be fewer, you already assume Black people are inferior. If you think the ones who are there don't belong and there should be even fewer, you're probably just racist.

 

[Shooshmoo]

If UNC has a problem, it appears it's that it has Junebugs and JHs handling its admissions process.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Edit - wrong racist

 

[WFFaithful]

Player 1 cuts the legs off player 2.
Player 1 says it's all good because the playing field is level and giving prothesis to player 2 would be demeaning.

 

[PhDeac]

Player 1 cuts the legs off player 2.
Player 1 says it's all good because the playing field is level and giving prothesis to player 2 would be demeaning.

Player 1 says Player 2 would be angry if the situation was reversed and Player 1 was getting two legs.

 

[WakeBored]

The product of a university are its graduates, and a college degree from a flagship state university is a very valuable social and economic credit, so it’s very logical that “diversity” is an aim of affirmative action.

I don't fully follow you here, but it sounds like you are saying "diversity" is justified on the ground that it will enable Black UNC graduates who otherwise wouldn't have gotten in to better succeed in post-college life. If that's what you are saying, that most certainly is not what UNC is arguing. Again, their sole argument is that race-based admissions are justified because of the educational benefits of having a racially diverse student body.

 

[deaconson]

Sincere question: what do you view as measures to address those issues and who is prioritizing that?

Insincere answer: he's just fine with what republicans are doing all over the country. Dismantling what few efforts have been made over the last 50 years.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Ph really summed up the argument with his theft analogy, we’re just repeating ourselves now.

 

[WakeBored]

Ph really summed up the argument with his theft analogy, we’re just repeating ourselves now.

I can't tell if you are being willfully ignorant, or the other kind. I'll say it again--UNC justified its policy solely on the ground of the asserted educational benefits of diversity. You and others (including Trimp) are making a reparations-type of argument. You can argue that until you are powder blue in the face, but that is not part of the case.

If you are defending UNC, you have to show that: (1) the putative justification for the policy--the educational benefit of a diverse college education experience--is a compelling governmental interest, likely by (a) assuming that White and non-White college students are so different from one other that there is some associational benefit to having them sit together in class and (b) measuring the benefits of the policy in terms of the benefit for White students of having more non-White students around; and (2) the policy is narrowly tailored to serve that interest such that it is the least restrictive means of doing so--i.e., there isn't any other race-neutral way that the governmental interest could be served, such as admitting the top 10% of every NC high school's graduating class, basing admissions decisions on socio-economic factors, etc., etc., etc.

That's the framework this will analyzed under. Best of luck.

 

[BarcaDeac]

I can't tell if you are being willfully ignorant, or the other kind. I'll say it again--UNC justified its policy solely on the ground of the asserted educational benefits of diversity. You and others (including Trimp) are making a reparations-type of argument. You can argue that until you are powder blue in the face, but that is not part of the case.

If you are defending UNC, you have to show that: (1) the putative justification for the policy--the educational benefit of a diverse college education experience--is a compelling governmental interest, likely by (a) assuming that White and non-White college students are so different from one other that there is some associational benefit to having them sit together in class and (b) measuring the benefits of the policy in terms of the benefit for White students of having more non-White students around; and (2) the policy is narrowly tailored to serve that interest such that it is the least restrictive means of doing so--i.e., there isn't any other race-neutral way that the governmental interest could be served, such as admitting the top 10% of every NC high school's graduating class, basing admissions decisions on socio-economic factors, etc., etc., etc.

That's the framework this will analyzed under. Best of luck.

this is why everyone hates lawyers. can't prove it benefits white people!

 

[PhDeac]

WakeBored believes that the Black students in that class are so different that many of them don't belong, but not that they're so different that white students would benefit from having them around.

Decipher that without coming to the conclusion that he just doesn't want white people to be around Black people.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

WakeBored believes that the Black students in that class are so different that many of them don't belong, but not that they're so different that white students would benefit from having them around.

Decipher that without coming to the conclusion that he just doesn't want white people to be around Black people.

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball

 

[WakeBored]

WakeBored believes that the Black students in that class are so different that many of them don't belong, but not that they're so different that white students would benefit from having them around.

Decipher that without coming to the conclusion that he just doesn't want white people to be around Black people.

I'll be honest--if I were defending your position, I'd probably resort to baseless personal attacks too.

 

[Shooshmoo]

I'll be honest--if I were defending your position, I'd probably resort to baseless personal attacks too.

Junebug Esq. means the position that has been the law of the land for 40 years, btw.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I'll be honest--if I were defending your position, I'd probably resort to baseless personal attacks too.

It is interesting to consider how you would defend your beliefs if you weren’t hiding behind institutional racism of the past, like what would your excuse be then?