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Redskins Name Change Thread

Clearly he doesn’t know how shorty this history is if he’s using the hardluck story of his voluntary immigrant parents from Sweden to one-up a descendant of enslaved people.

Your parents stepped into a country paved for whiteness through centuries genocide, slavery, and other forms of racial oppression all so he could tap dance about how hard it was coming to this land with $7 instead of head to foot in a slave ship.
 
Conquest, war, genocide, slavery, mass human sacrifices, etc....

How much of this is actually true? I’m not a scholar of Native American history but the Native war stories and heroes I’ve heard from fighting against Europeans. There was a massive European propaganda campaign here and the “motherland” to characterize natives as savages to justify genocide to clear them out for colonization.
 
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No surprise a Stratton is an entitled asshole ready to defend genocide and racism. So Ph doesn’t have to, “fuck off!” piece of shit. Why don’t you tell Ph what a wonderful history our country has that led to his family being here. Go ahead, tell us.

I will tell you that regardless of the circumstances that brought Ph's ancestors here, he and his family are currently enjoying the benefits of living in a country that affords the kind of opportunities and promise that lead millions of people to literally risk their lives to come here for a better life.

When I wonder how and why folks like Tobacco Road and BarcaDeac could have such a ridiculous view of this great country that we are truly blessed to live in, I have to remind myself that they were likely indoctrinated by "academics' much like Ph. Seriously, what in the fuck?? Who did this to you? Howard Zinn has turned out a generation+ of douchebags. You folks need to get out more. Let me know what country or nation is without sin in its past and get back to me.
 
How much of this is actually true? I’m not a scholar of Native American history but the Native war stories and heroes I’ve heard from fighting against Europeans. There was a massive European propaganda campaign here and the “motherland” to characterize natives as savages to justify genocide to clear them out for colonization.

Seriously, Ph? You think Native American tribes were all kumbaya with one another? For starters, how about reading Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne and taking a gander at how the Comanches played nice with their fellow Native American tribes.

BTW: I am a Native American. I was born right here in North Carolina.
 
Why do we need to prop up another country's history to recognize the shittiness of America's history?
 
How much of this is actually true? I’m not a scholar of Native American history but the Native war stories and heroes I’ve heard from fighting against Europeans. There was a massive European propaganda campaign here and the “motherland” to characterize natives as savages to justify genocide to clear them out for colonization.

I'm no expert either, but there seems to be a lot of Native American revisionist history that goes on. From Roanoke to King Philip's War to French/Indian War to the Revolutionary War, the colonist relationship with Indians was complicated and doesn't fit into a neat narrative. Sometimes peaceful, sometimes warlike, but always dangerous because not all tribes were on the same page, or even people within tribes, and the hell if the average settler was going to know who was what. There are many contemporary accounts of Indian attacks and atrocities from the earliest days, and those are not part of some European propaganda plan or even American propaganda plan. The idea that you could have all these newspaper folks and settlers spread out, with no way to connect each other except by horse ride for days, all acting on the same page to make Indians look bad is just absurd. There were obviously atrocities on the part of the white man too, the worst of which probably being the Trail Of Tears (which, in spite of the belief of some, was taught to people my age, to people my father's age, and even people my great grandfather's age, who would've been a schoolboy from about 1900-1910). If you get down to a "who started the fight?" debate, it's pointless. Maybe the whites started it by simply landing on the shore, or maybe the Indians did by killing everybody who did. Regardless, that shit happened in fits and starts on both sides for 300-400 years not because one side was morally superior/inferior to the other or because somebody "started it", but because war was a part of life back then in a way that people can't fathom today.

The whole "America is a racist, genocidal country" narrative has been around since the old Soviet Union days and that's really where it comes from. Stratton's attack was out of line since it is a bit silly to compare the experience of pasty white Swedes with black folks, but the larger point of every country/civilization having similar issues is absolutely true. The Euros still too this day will look down on other Euros, Mexicans look down on other Mexicans, and Asians are remarkably racist about everybody, especially other Asians. I don't think I need to get into Africa, Rwanda being a recent, obvious example. And every one of those areas have had far more recent experiences with things much more terrible than anything America has touched. I take the rather unpopular view that because of America's diversity and tackling of its past, that we are remarkably lacking in racism compared to most if not all other countries of consequence. America was never great because of its racism or because it made Indians march hundreds of miles and die along the way. It never claimed to be. It was great because of the influence it had on the world, on spreading democracy, religious freedom, and inspiring others. The focus on its faults is counterproductive, and at some point the motive should be questioned.
 
Seriously, Ph? You think Native American tribes were all kumbaya with one another? For starters, how about reading Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne and taking a gander at how the Comanches played nice with their fellow Native American tribes.

BTW: I am a Native American. I was born right here in North Carolina.

A remarkable book. It also offers a reason for why Mexico tolerated slavery in its Texas territory-- because it needed settlers to act as a buffer to the crazy-ass Comanches.

Ph is only gonna listen if you're Lumbee.
 
Classy set of posts from 92…again.

Are you actually proud of your country? You seem desperate to ignore anything bad about it. You sound terribly insecure and defensive, not proud.
 
Everytime I see a story like this I just imagine some conservative culture war leader jagoff laughing his ass off about how stuff like this makes his job so easy.
 
Classy set of posts from 92…again.

Are you actually proud of your country? You seem desperate to ignore anything bad about it. You sound terribly insecure and defensive, not proud.

As I said…most offended poster here
 
With the huge white outrage from some posters who for some reason can’t admit there are massive flaws with this country through out its history, at the bare minimum you should ignore it and burry your head in the sand like them instead of glorify it within sports.
 
I bet 92 believes in a standard hard work narrative but for me, a Black guy, I’m only successful because I’m lucky enough to be born here. God bless the enslavers!!

Wow. One of the hallmarks of a white supremacist mindset is that your white opinion makes white experience is inherently superior to those of others. 92 embodies that. He can’t even consider anyone else’s perspective. His white-centric telling of history and the present is all that exists.

ELC, the idea that American genocide is a Soviet invention is comical. Take the same history you know and just imagine all the killing was justified. Telling groups of people who were wiped out and enslaved that their stories are Soviet propaganda is just nonsense.
 
I like the struggle of coming from…. Checks notes one of the most successful happiest countries on earth. Hell if you lived in Sweden you’d get to enjoy your life for like an extra decade longer.
 
I like the struggle of coming from…. Checks notes one of the most successful happiest countries on earth. Hell if you lived in Sweden you’d get to enjoy your life for like an extra decade longer.

Fucking moron. My ancestors came here from Sweden because they were starving. Literally starving. I sat at Axel and Olga's knees and heard the stories, and they were pretty bad.

My dad back in the day (yes, I am old, old old) was 6' 3" and 110 pounds when he got here. Successful and happy back in jolly ole Sweden? Not so much. Do some learning about what was happening in Sweden in the 1920s. Or just admit that you are an idiot. Either way is fine with me.

No one, I see, has found a country whose history, from today's perspective, is better than the USA. And the US has been a beacon for the downtrodden for 200 years. I'll take it. I don't know anything about PH, but apparently he is black and descended from slaves. Nobody condones the people who enabled slavery. We fought a terrible war to end it, but we did end it. And I heard a debate once, I can't recall the participants but they were two black men, in which one of them was bemoaning the heritage of slavery. The other agreed, but asked whether he would rather have been born in Africa than in America in 1970. What would be your answer?
 
Anybody that won’t bury their head in strattons white ignorance and privilege is a moron?
Acknowledging our sins is not saying other countries are without sin. It’s really not complicated if you aren’t so insecure. So, who is the moron?
I went to public school in south Mississippi and eastern North Carolina then Wake Forest. I can assure you that I am not the product of liberal indoctrination. What a dumb statement. The go-to for these ignorant bigots that can’t mount a coherent argument is that the people who disagree with them must be indoctrinated by education. As Ph noted, try to consider someone else’s experience. That would be a much better explanation for how I came to my views. Or, maybe you are scared of what realizations that you might have so refuse to consider it.
This thread is full of straw men and absurd justification of horrid behavior and history.

I can be very grateful for my life in this country and still acknowledge the warts. And still acknowledge that not everyone in this country gets the same experience as I do. As noted, those who ignore the undeniable facts of our history, and current state, must actually hate our country or are totally cool with that ugly history.

92, what views do I have of this country that are ridiculous?
 
You’re talking with people that want to bury things so deep they just used the notion that slavery must not have been that bad because wouldn’t you rather be a slave descendant and born in America than born in Africa, but hey at leas this time the story was buried in some bullshit fake anecdotal debate between two black men.
 
stratton, plenty of people condone the people who enabled slavery. We resumed this discussion because a university was in the news for announcing a mascot change. That university is named after an enslaver who enabled slavery as a general who fought for independent country in which slavery would be legal, enabled slavery as the first President of that country, and enabled slavery as a signer of the Constitution that maintained legal slavery. That university is changing its mascot from the people who created and maintained chattel slavery on this continent for about 150 years before these colonies formed that country. Countless cities, schools, organizations, buildings, etc. are named after those who enabled slavery and those who fought for slavery when it was made illegal.

Your last question is a sadly common argument I've seen from white people who haven't really thought about these issues. It works when you're shooting shit with each other but fall apart when you take them out in the world. If slavery never happened, Africans would eventually voluntarily immigrate to the US like Africans have immigrated to every other country in the world including the US post-slavery, much like your parents did, much like Barack Obama's dad and plenty of others. Overall African immigrants in the US out-perform African-Americans. I've had the good fortune to meet plenty of Africans with a similar background to mine who are doing just as well as I am.
 
Nobody condones the people who enabled slavery. We fought a terrible war to end it, but we did end it.

This phrasing always kills me. Half of "us" were fighting a war to keep it, and "we" condoned many of them with statues, holidays, and naming things after them.
 
Ph, that’s a lot of words that I can’t really pay attention to. Can you just answer “yes or no”? Which country would you rather be born in? The United States of America or Africa? If you would just answer yes or no without all that other stuff I could move on and not feel so bad about slavery.
 
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