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Conference Expansion: Stanford, California and SMU Join the ACC

Conan said:
Pete Thamel: "There's no interest by Big 12 members going to the Pac-12 or ACC."

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...t-steps-acc-big-12-pac-12-scramble-amid-chaos
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Right now, would think the no interest is mutual. With OU and Texas leaving, there are no Big 12 teams that could come to the ACC and increase the revenue per school. That is the only metric that matters. If the ACC adds Baylor and OK State (or any other combination) that isn't going to generate enough income to increase the current media rights deals per school to justify the move.

This is all a math problem. Right now, the ACC GOR creates enough leverage to keep the few ACC teams that the SEC or Big 10 would currently want (FWIW, I'm not convinced the SEC would want anyone other than Clemson and UNC; the Big 10 would want the same two and possibly UVA and one Florida school). As the divide between the revenue per school grows between the ACC and the Big 10/SEC, at some point, it will make sense for schools to leave. The ACC's only hope for long term survival is the economics don't make sense to take 8 or more current ACCschools. Given that two and probably at least 4 from the Pac-12 would be attractive than the #8 ACC team and given that ND will probably jump at some point (and maybe one or two Big 12 teams would be more attractive than the #8 ACC team), there is some chance that at least 8 current ACC schools will have no better offer, and if that happened the ACC would remain as a reduced group. At that point, it may make sense to try to add teams from the Big 12 (or the Big 12 if its stronger than the ACC, may try to add ACC teams, which would kill the conference).
 
I'd have to think WVU and UCF at the least would be open to ACC.
 
Conan said:
Pete Thamel: "There's no interest by Big 12 members going to the Pac-12 or ACC."

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...t-steps-acc-big-12-pac-12-scramble-amid-chaos
Click to expand...

So, important to have all the context around the quote:

- it was from a league source not Thamel himself. Of course no one in the league is going to say there's interest in going to another conference while they're trying to tread water and be the third conference

- The Pac-12 basically said the same thing last Thursday and now we hear that they're meeting with the Big 12.

No one is going to tip their hands of what's actually going on behind closed doors. Certain people put out certain quotes for a reason
 
Deacon92 said:
I'd have to think WVU and UCF at the least would be open to ACC.
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There is no point in adding those teams. That would only reduce the payout per ACC school. Also, as I understand the GOR adding schools to the conference without unanimous consent would give a current ACC school the right to limit their GOR obligation. Put another way, if the ACC adds WV and UCF and the payout per school drops form $35 million a year to $32 million, then Clemson could leave the conference.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
The most recent move suggests otherwise. I think that certain markets don't matter as much anymore, but expanding to the West Coast population inherently brings a ton more viewers to certain conferences.
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I think of this more as brand accumulation than expansion into new markets. Yes, the brand has markets that come with it, but the packaging means more. USC and UCLA and Texas and Oklahoma and Notre Dame draw more attention from all markets. They each have a brand that is valuable within Fox's or ESPN's portfolio of brands.
 
donaldross said:
What exactly is Wake better than FSU Miami in? Miami just whipped our ass another year in basketball and just made it further than we have in 25+ years. FSU has been to 3 of the last 5 sweet 16s and won 2 acc tournaments the last decade.

Wake Forest hasn't even advanced past the ACC quarters since our students have been alive.
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Football. The only sport that matters in this discussion.
 
Pilchard said:
There is no point in adding those teams. That would only reduce the payout per ACC school. Also, as I understand the GOR adding schools to the conference without unanimous consent would give a current ACC school the right to limit their GOR obligation. Put another way, if the ACC adds WV and UCF and the payout per school drops form $35 million a year to $32 million, then Clemson could leave the conference.
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agree 100% and posted as such yesterday
 
 
The ACC is largely in this situation because after dominating college football in the 1990s and early 2000s (FSU did win the Natty in 2013 and got back to the CFP in 2014), FSU and Miami have both fallen apart as elite football programs. Seems so long ago, but Miami v. FSU was always either the biggest or at least in the top 5 football games of the year, with often the winner in the drivers seat for the Natty. Had that trend continued, or at least had Miami and FSU been as good as, say Oklahoma, who Miami typically pummeled, in the last 5 years, the ACC would be a completely different position. Instead Duke football has played in the ACCCG as often as Miami. Wake Forest beating FSU is no longer a big deal; there was a time when it looked like FSU might never lose an ACC game to anyone. When/if the ACC falls apart, Miami and FSU sucking at football are more to blame than anything else by miles.
 
Screw it let’s just accept 1 billion for the Saudis and tell ESPN/Fox to fuck off.
 
Buttermaker said:
Football. The only sport that matters in this discussion.
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Correct. The ACC leadership failed to recognize this for the past 30 years and continued to push a basketball 1st mindset. For some reason many fans of ACC teams, including lots of Wake fans still can't grasp this concept. Basketball does not matter. Move on. Stop dumping money into it.
 
Interesting that the BIG12 now seems to be in the position of power relative to the PAC#. There have been times where the BIG12 seemed to be on life support.
 
Pilchard said:
There is no point in adding those teams. That would only reduce the payout per ACC school. Also, as I understand the GOR adding schools to the conference without unanimous consent would give a current ACC school the right to limit their GOR obligation. Put another way, if the ACC adds WV and UCF and the payout per school drops form $35 million a year to $32 million, then Clemson could leave the conference.
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Was saying in relation the the comment no B12 school would be interested. I'm saying at least those two would be. Not saying that it makes sense to add them.
 
CamLemons said:
So, important to have all the context around the quote:

- it was from a league source not Thamel himself. Of course no one in the league is going to say there's interest in going to another conference while they're trying to tread water and be the third conference

- The Pac-12 basically said the same thing last Thursday and now we hear that they're meeting with the Big 12.

No one is going to tip their hands of what's actually going on behind closed doors. Certain people put out certain quotes for a reason
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Correct. It’s like draft season. Little incentive to reveal true intentions and lots of incentive to reveal false ones.

Reporters must have to make peace with knowing that they’re used as these sorts of mouthpieces for prevarication. It’s probably worth it to play ball because occasionally that access will lead to some true breaking news.
 
Deacon92 said:
Was saying in relation the the comment no B12 school would be interested. I'm saying at least those two would be. Not saying that it makes sense to add them.
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ACC is probably on the phone right now with ND, Oregon and maybe Stanford. They want to add brands, not necessarily tv markets anymore. UCLA went to the Big 10 not because they are really good at football, but because the Big 10 wanted the brand. If the ACC cant do something to increase revenue and increase big games, they will probably be poached soon.
 
skinnydeac said:
Correct. The ACC leadership failed to recognize this for the past 30 years and continued to push a basketball 1st mindset. For some reason many fans of ACC teams, including lots of Wake fans still can't grasp this concept. Basketball does not matter. Move on. Stop dumping money into it.
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Agreed that the ACC didn’t prioritize football enough in the 1990’s but let’s remember - adding Miami and VT in 2003/2004 resulted in a lot of eye rolls in ACC country from losing basketball round robin. That was entirely football driven and both of those programs were top 10 at the time. VT falling off has hurt the league big time- FSU has atleast had a few good years with Jimbo in there and I think Miami was top 5 with Richt. I don’t think VT has been top 10 for 15 years but I’m sure someone can confirm/deny that. VT has great fan support but it’s a tough place to recruit blue chip guys compared to other options out there from The Tidewater. Beamer was able to get enough of those guys and a lot of diamond in the rough guys that maybe had hard pasts. They’ve fallen off with some of those groups last 10 years. I also think he stayed too long and didn’t put in a succession plan giving Bud Foster keys to the kingdom 10 years ago.
 
JKW385 said:
Agreed that the ACC didn’t prioritize football enough in the 1990’s but let’s remember - adding Miami and VT in 2003/2004 resulted in a lot of eye rolls in ACC country from losing basketball round robin. That was entirely football driven and both of those programs were top 10 at the time. VT falling off has hurt the league big time- FSU has atleast had a few good years with Jimbo in there and I think Miami was top 5 with Richt. I don’t think VT has been top 10 for 15 years but I’m sure someone can confirm/deny that. VT has great fan support but it’s a tough place to recruit blue chip guys compared to other options out there from The Tidewater. Beamer was able to get enough of those guys and a lot of diamond in the rough guys that maybe had hard pasts. They’ve fallen off with some of those groups last 10 years. I also think he stayed too long and didn’t put in a succession plan giving Bud Foster keys to the kingdom 10 years ago.
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I 100% agree that at the time, those were great teams to add. It would have been tough to predict the lack of relative success at those two schools. My issue is mainly with branding and messaging. I feel like the ACC still pushed duke & uNC basketball way harder than it pushed for top football rivalries.

Maybe being late to the party with a network was a problem. A year round 30 minute show about nothing but ACC football for the last decade wouldn't have hurt.
 
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