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ITC Chat Thread - Kurt Loder vs Carson Daly WYG

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While we're talking about this - deterrance has been up my ass for about five years now.

One of the factors that the sentencing statute requires federal judges to consider is "the need for deterrance."

Well, there's two types of deterrance: specific (the individual before the Court), and general (the larger community). When the statute was enacted, both were scientifically supported. However, since that time, science has undermined (some would say, completely destroyed) the validity of general deterrance. Turns out, you think it should work, but it don't. At all. In fact, there's some evidence to support that harsh punishments; whether or not objectively fair, will actually undermine the overall aims of sentencing if they are subjectively viewed as unfair. Which, that's a whole different can of worms.

However, the fact that federal sentencing judges are forced to engaged in repeated analysis of something that has been scientifically undermined is mind-boggling. Further, most of them are like, "oh, well, that's just stupid statistics, psychology, and sociology, not like, congress and shit, and I've been doing this for XX years, and deterrance is important and shit, so BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE." And I'm like, "whale fuk." That doesn't happen often, but it's weaksauce fr fr.
 
Donkey Deac Doug said:
Cool cool. I mean, we're all the same people anyway, right?

It's not like a literal sociopath that rapes women and kids, but is caught with an illegal firearm should be treated any different than a young kid without a meaningful criminal history who was also caught with an illegal firearm. Especially not if they are going to go to the same let's-rape-more-kids facilities based on equal punishment.
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I think what I was trying to convey is that in the realm of criminal liability. Past crimes certainly come into play, actions within the crime themselves come into play. So first time illegal firearm vs second time illegal firearm, or rape verse serial rape, violent vs non-violent. Outside things like letters from your friends shouldn’t mean shit.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
man, i'm glad it's feeling like Fall

woke up cool outside, took the dog outside for a walk mid day and it's not miserable, sleep with the windows open again

big win
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Absolutely!

Windows open last night...still...tonight too.

Cut grass etc. today...not feeling like I'm roasting in an oven. Nice.
 
TownieDeac said:
Not familiar with these but I’d say let’s get rid of them
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There's one in Terra Haute. It's...not a great place.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons was given an impossible task of housing loads of sex offenders. Rather than put them in the general population (where the BOP would have to devote MASSIVE resources toward protecting those folks from gen pop), BOP made the call to make a kiddy rape prison that's basically just full of child sex offenders.

TURNS OUT, when you take someone who isn't at much risk for reoffending in a child sex offense, but then you steep them in five years of everyone-around-me-normalizes-chlid-sex-offenses you get....a statistically higher rate of reoffense.

Unfortunately, there's no real good solution to the housing diversity problem if you don't believe in just killing all of them.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
I think what I was trying to convey is that in the realm of criminal liability. Past crimes certainly come into play, actions within the crime themselves come into play. So first time illegal firearm vs second time illegal firearm, or rape verse serial rape, violent vs non-violent. Outside things like letters from your friends shouldn’t mean shit.
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Here are the things the Court considers, in relative order of importance:

Nature and Circiumstances of the Offense
History and Characteristics of the Offender
The need for the sentence imposed to (A) reflect the seriousness of the offense; (B) afford deterrence, (C) protect the public, (D) provide the offender with rehabilitation
The kinds of sentences available
The guidelines
Avoiding unwarranted disparities with similar defendants
Restition to victims.
 
If you guys think there are other things that are important, I'd love to hear that. Judges are always looking for a new set of information.
 
his twitter handle is:
medwyn sofa ngles
or
medwyns of angles
or
medwyn sof angles

i'm so confused
 
YoungBuck95 said:
Spindrift
Liquid death
Topo chico

Or gtfo
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I have not tried the liquid death sparkling water yet.

I tossed a few cans of the regular mountain spring water in my tailgate cooler to remind me to stay hydrated and it worked pretty well.
 
Donkey Deac Doug said:
Turns out, you think it should work, but it don't. At all. In fact, there's some evidence to support that harsh punishments; whether or not objectively fair, will actually undermine the overall aims of sentencing if they are subjectively viewed as unfair. Which, that's a whole different can of worms.

However, the fact that federal sentencing judges are forced to engaged in repeated analysis of something that has been scientifically undermined is mind-boggling. Further, most of them are like, "oh, well, that's just stupid statistics, psychology, and sociology, not like, congress and shit, and I've been doing this for XX years, and deterrance is important and shit,
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“Illusory truth effect” - If something is familiar and easy to understand, we will believe it. Parallels with confirmation bias. Humans are naturally punitive and vengeful. Society forces us to use reason in our decisions, or at least pretend to, so how do we square that? We invent logical, defensible seeming reasons to punish people and take vengeance. Removing the logic from this would leave us naked with ugly desires, so we resist change.
 
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