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Official 2023-24 NBA Season Thread - The greatest words in sports, Game 7! Pacers/Knicks and T-Wolves/Nuggets

PhDeac said:
A few reasons:

#1 is the refusal to optimize the roster based on a desire to play Wemby at the 4, try Sochan at PG, and keep Tre Jones on the bench. The obvious starting lineup was:
PG Tre Jones
SG Devon Vassell
SF Keldon Johnson
PF Jeremy Sochan
C Victor Wembanyama

Five players playing their natural position (yes, 7-4 Wemby is a C). That lineup has a +41.3 net rating but they've only played 21 minutes together, the best of any lineup with 10+ minutes.

Lineups Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

Ability to view statistics and advanced analytics for any combination of 5-man, 4-man, 3-man, or 2-man lineups that a team has played throughout the season. Lineup information dates back to the 2007-08 season.
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#2 is related. While Wemby is a fine ball handler and creator for his size, he really needs a true PG to get him the ball in his unique spots. But this team is mostly bunch of scorers who generally create for themselves. Wemby is a cheat code only a few of teammates can figure out how to work.

#3 is talent. I fear these guys may not be as good as I thought they'd be. I figured this team would be good for at least 30-35 wins and just needed a veteran PG and star wing to make them a legit contender. Wemby may be the only one who is a legit top 3 option for a contender. Vassell may be a limited streaky shooter and not much of a playmaker. Keldon Johnson seems like a more all-around player. Collins is a good complementary big. He's a good heavy to pair with Wemby and he's a good interior passer. Pop is trying to turn him into the stretch 5 he was at Gonzaga, but it's not really happening. It's hard to judge Jones without giving him full-time PG minutes. It's hard to judge Sochan as a PG rather than a high ceiling big wing. The bench is decent.
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seems like Pop is trying to do a lot of stuff that just doesn't work right now?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
That is a tough question because I think you'd only have to look at modern coaches to get a realistic assessment, as older coaches in smaller leagues usually all had really top level talent so outliers like what you're looking for would be tough to find.

Off the top of my head, you can exclude the LeBron era and what Spo has done since then should put him in the conversation. Nurse could be on that level too, Kawhi has proven to be useless, we'll see what he does in Philly. On the NFL side, my man Coughlin has to be in the conversation with how much y'all rag on ELIte.
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This is a heck of a take and I still call him nephew
 
Strickland33 said:
seems like Pop is trying to do a lot of stuff that just doesn't work right now?
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Definitely. It's tough to tell if they are improving individually (I think so) but they are absolutely not putting it together as a team right now.
 
PhDeac said:
All in all, it's hard to criticize past moves like waiting so long to rebuild post-Kawhi because it got them Wemby. Right now, they're experimenting and taking inventory. That's fine but Wemby is better than I expected at this stage, so it feels like they're wasting a season. At least, play him in optimal lineups.
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You also can't give them credit for it either, as it is not a direct correlation. They didn't have the worst record that ended with Wemby like an NFL situation. Silver gifted Pop Wemby despite the odds not being in their favor. If they were in the general realm of getting him, they were going to get him. You can call it rigged or you can call it luck, but whatever it is, it is outside the box of team performance strategy.
 
Strickland33 said:
seems like Pop is trying to do a lot of stuff that just doesn't work right now?
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Right. Instead of doing the most obvious thing which is insert Wemby's into last year's starting lineup at C.

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
You also can't give them credit for it either, as it is not a direct correlation. They didn't have the worst record that ended with Wemby like an NFL situation. Silver gifted Pop Wemby despite the odds not being in their favor. If they were in the general realm of getting him, they were going to get him. You can call it rigged or you can call it luck, but whatever it is, it is outside the box of team performance strategy.
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The Spurs shared 14% odds with the Pistons and Rockets. The Hornets had 12.5% odds.
 
it's always a risk to instill a culture of losing with a roster that young, too

pistons, rockets, and hornets are examples of franchises that are just culturally losers by this point? rockets had to overpay for two try hards who aren't particularly good at anything besides (allegedly) representing winning cultures
 
Strickland33 said:
it's always a risk to instill a culture of losing with a roster that young, too

pistons, rockets, and hornets are examples of franchises that are just culturally losers by this point? rockets had to overpay for two try hards who aren't particularly good at anything besides (allegedly) representing winning cultures
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Exactly. One reason I don't like tanking especially extended tanks.

The Spurs only have 3 players with playoff experience. Collins has the most with 20 games. None of them have started a playoff game.
 
deaconson said:
Other than two titles with two different teams? Yeah, he's been injured and playing with one of the other most injured stars around.
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He won one with Duncan and one with Nurse. Since then, he has been "injured" in the same way Ben Simmons has been "injured". The most important ability is availability, of which he has proven to not be concerned. So I give the credit to Nurse for pushing him to that second title, which was my point in response to the original question about great coaches without GOAT players.
 
PhDeac said:
Exactly. One reason I don't like tanking especially extended tanks.

The Spurs only have 3 players with playoff experience. Collins has the most with 20 games. None of them have started a playoff game.
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is it time to fire pop? can you fire pop? how does that work?
 
When if they anounce something I'd put money on a transition time frame as the new coach is announced.
 
Pop's not going anywhere until he chooses to leave. And he'll probably choose the replacement.

I think there's a massive disconnect between a soon-to-be 75-year-old coach with 5 rings and the most wins of any coach and a young core who has never been to the playoffs. I think they need a coach who matches their hunger. Pop has nothing to prove. He's tinkering. He's having fun coaching the next big phenom and a young roster. This roster needs a coach who is desperate to win. A coach who wants to prove themself. A coach who would lose their shit after 100+ games of a team that can't keep a halftime lead past the first 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter.

Give me Becky Hammon as the first woman NBA head coach and she'll go all the way in with this roster.
 
I wouldn't discount her (or whoever the next coach is) from exploring trade options for a true lead pg and leaning in as well.
 
I doubt the front office will make a move. Seems like their plan is to draft a starting PG of the future.

If a trade is out of the picture, I'd rather them let Tre Jones run start and draft a PG who may or may not be a future starter.

The Spurs were 6-15 after 21 games last season. They had a 1-16 stretch where they went from 5-2 to 6-18.
 
I'm saying, IF a new coach came in (that is not happening) that new coach might want to make their own mark on the team.

We can discuss on the donk thread
 
Pilchard said:
Simultaneous with the semifinals and finals of the in-season tournament in Vegas. They should have a three team tournament played at the nastiest Casino in Mississippi, requiring the Pistons, Spurs and Wiz to play. The team that finishes DFL loses their 2024 NBA draft pick. If the the three teams go 1-1 (which would be likely), the loser is based on point differential. Incentivize the dreg teams to run it up.
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Cool idea. Except at least one player on each team, and probably quite a few, would be actively hoping his team gets its draft pick taken away so he doesn’t get replaced next year.
 
It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Maxey wins most improved player, SGA MVP, and Isaiah Joe 6th man of the year. All players Doc benched or cut while he coached.
 
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