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Steve Forbes credibility watch

atldeac23 said:
Klintman averaged 5 points a game on a team that didn't sniff the NIT and then bounced. "serious impact"?
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I mean, you recruit a kid... He earns legit playing time as the season goes on, turning into an important player by the end of his freshman year... That player blows up so much that he leaves after a season to better position himself to be a 1st round NBA draft pick.

Obviously it would have worked out better to have him as a starter this season, but not sure how you can argue that Klintman wasn't a recruiting "win".
 
Freshmen playing more than 30% of their team's minutes this year in the ACC:

UNC - Cadeau (58.1%)
Duke - McCain (72.5%), Foster (63.1%)
UVA - Bond (32.8%), Buchanan (35.6%)
FSU - n/a
NCSU - Parker (45.9%)
VT - n/a
Miami - George (55.5%)
Syracuse - n/a
Clemson - n/a
Pitt - Carrington (83.3%), Lowe (52.9%)
BC - Hand (35.6%)
GT - George (60.7%), Ndongo (58.0%)
ND - Burton (81.4%), Shrewsberry (64.8%), Booth (43.9%), Imes (36.6%)
Louisville - Johnson (50.3%), Williams (45.6%)

Wake - Friedrichsen (44.2%)
 
Additional context for the above post... Bolded means they are on the above list of guys actually in the rotation.

HS Recruits - '23:

UNC - Cadeau (12), High (92)
Duke - McCain (14), Power (17), Stewart (22), Foster (23)
UVA - Gertrude (48), Buchanan (82), Bliss (NR), Robinson (NR)
FSU - Bowen (110)
NCSU - Parker (123)
VT - Rechsteiner (115), Young (NR)
Miami - Nwoko (111), George (NR), Djobet (NR)
Syracuse - Patterson (NR)
Clemson - Thomas (240)
Pitt - Kante (74), Lowe (89), Carrington (91), Barnes (NR)
BC - Hastings (142), Payne (NR), Strong (NR)
GT - Ndongo (172), George (NR), Sacko (NR), Souare (NR)
ND - Booth (55), Burton (179), Imes (205), Shrewsberry (243)
Louisville - Evans (25), Glenn (116), Johnson (118), Williams (125), Davis (NR)

Wake - Friedrichsen (93), Clark (164), MMM (213)

Thoughts:
ND sucks, and is forced to play freshmen that aren't ready (and may never be ACC-caliber) because they had like zero returning players on their roster from last year's shitty team
There are some highly ranked guys not seeing much action at all... And not just for UNC/Duke
ACC HS recruiting for '23 looks pretty bad... No wonder the ACC is falling behind other conferences
Clemson is going to blow next year unless Brownell can bring in a haul of transfers
 
Both of the GT freshman who play are pretty solid. Better than any of our HS recruits other than Hildreth.
 
DeacsATS said:
I mean, you recruit a kid... He earns legit playing time as the season goes on, turning into an important player by the end of his freshman year... That player blows up so much that he leaves after a season to better position himself to be a 1st round NBA draft pick.

Obviously it would have worked out better to have him as a starter this season, but not sure how you can argue that Klintman wasn't a recruiting "win".
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He only got more playing time because Monsanto got hurt. And he also only came to Wake because Colorado wouldn't admit him.

And then he received feedback that he wasn't anywhere near an NBA player, refused to play live against other prospects, and left for some BS australian league. His team got beat by 50 by both NBA teams they scrimmaged (mostly backups). For example, I found the box score of their scrimmage on 10/23/23 vs Toronto. Bobi played 35 minutes and was 3/12 with 9 points. For comparison, Raptors Javon Freeman-Liberty had 15 points in 15 minutes. I checked and that guy has played 4 minutes all year. Bobi's not even close to ready for the NBA. If he's actually drafted in the first round that NBA front office will have a lot of job openings soon. I mean I get he fits the current NBA fetish but goddamn.
 
atldeac23 said:
He only got more playing time because Monsanto got hurt. And he also only came to Wake because Colorado wouldn't admit him.

And then he received feedback that he wasn't anywhere near an NBA player, refused to play live against other prospects, and left for some BS australian league. His team got beat by 50 by both NBA teams they scrimmaged (mostly backups). For example, I found the box score of their scrimmage on 10/23/23 vs Toronto. Bobi played 35 minutes and was 3/12 with 9 points. For comparison, Raptors Javon Freeman-Liberty had 15 points in 15 minutes. I checked and that guy has played 4 minutes all year. Bobi's not even close to ready for the NBA. If he's actually drafted in the first round that NBA front office will have a lot of job openings soon. I mean I get he fits the current NBA fetish but goddamn.
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Windy asked for an example of a Forbes recruit that made an impact. Regardless of situation, Bobi played a ton of minutes his freshman year and was pretty good in those minutes.

I'm not arguing whether or not he'll have a successful NBA career. I'm not even arguing whether or not Forbes has been great at recruiting. Was just providing an example.

I'm not sure what Bobi's play in Australia has to do with the current state of Wake Forest Basketball.
 
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birdman said:
I just like the guy and I don't want to see him fired.
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Same. I would also add that I think he has a really high ceiling because he is willing to adapt to the times (recruiting from the portal, following analytics, etc.), has a lot of strong connections throughout basketball (NBA, international, JUCO, AAU, etc.), and he knows the game very well (you can tell by listening to his pressers). Sticking with a coach that has a high ceiling, even if their first several seasons are middle of the road, can pay huge dividends in the long run. See Tom Walter.
 
atldeac23 said:
He only got more playing time because Monsanto got hurt. And he also only came to Wake because Colorado wouldn't admit him.

And then he received feedback that he wasn't anywhere near an NBA player, refused to play live against other prospects, and left for some BS australian league. His team got beat by 50 by both NBA teams they scrimmaged (mostly backups). For example, I found the box score of their scrimmage on 10/23/23 vs Toronto. Bobi played 35 minutes and was 3/12 with 9 points. For comparison, Raptors Javon Freeman-Liberty had 15 points in 15 minutes. I checked and that guy has played 4 minutes all year. Bobi's not even close to ready for the NBA. If he's actually drafted in the first round that NBA front office will have a lot of job openings soon. I mean I get he fits the current NBA fetish but goddamn.
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That makes sense but that’s not how it works. G-League Ignite is 0-15 and they have four players mocked in the 1st round including two mocked in the top 5-8. These dudes can’t beat guys who can’t make the league but teams think these guys can help them win a championship.
 
Because I was curious... '22 ACC recruits and how many of those guys play 50% of minutes for the team that recruited them:

Boston College: Hand, Aligbe (55.5%), Kelley, Mighty - 0 transfers out
Clemson: Wiggins (51.6%), Hunter (47.9%), Gibson, Godfrey - 1 transfer out
Duke: Lively, Whitehead, Filipowski (75.5%), Mitchell (59.9%), Proctor (61.8%), Schutt, Reeves - 2 NBA, 0 transfers out
FSU: Palinkas, Miller (59.8%), Jackson, Green, Corhen, Bembry, House - 2 transfers out
GT: Bagatskis, Martynov - 2 transfers out
Louisville: Lands, Ree, Basili, Okorafor - 3 transfers out
Miami: Watson, Casey, Aire, Jovanovich - 2 transfers out
NCSU: Miranda, Thomas - 1 transfer out
North Carolina: Trimble, Washington, Nickel - 1 transfer out
Notre Dame: Starling, Lubin, Campbell - 3 transfers out
Pittsburgh: Federiko (51.9%), Johnson, Diaz, Diaz - 1 transfer
Syracuse: Mintz (82.9%), Bell (59.8%), Taylor (59.6%), Copeland (53.5%), Brown (66.6%), Carey - 0 transfers out
Virginia: McKneely (73.6%), Bond, Traudt, Dunn (67.7%) - 1 transfer
Virginia Tech: Rice, Wessler, Collins (58.2%), Buchanan - 2 transfers
Wake Forest: Keller, Klintman - 1 Australia

Total '22 ACC Recruits: 60
Playing more than 50% of minutes in Year 2: 15
Playing less than 50% of minutes in Year 2: 23
Transfers: 19
NBA/Australia: 3

Thoughts:
Only 25% of players you recruit will end up being major contributors in Year 2... and if you take Syracuse out of that equation, it drops below 20% (18.5%)
Looking at '22 & '23 recruiting, you can be successful via transfers (UNC & Miami... NCSU & Wake to a degree)
Syracuse is a big outlier, which is even more surprising given the coaching change. All 6 recruits from '22 remain with the team and 5 of them play meaningful minutes
 
He got in some games for UCLA. Not sure if it was all garbage time or not.
 
Sounds as if Forbes really wanted Canka out of high school… lost to UCLA and was thrilled to get a second chance at bringing him to Wake.
Haven’t seen anything to date that justifies those feelings, but he’s seen him a lot more than I.
 
PhDeac said:
He got in some games for UCLA. Not sure if it was all garbage time or not.
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Canka played 12 minutes last New Year's Day for UCLA at Washington.

After that he played a total of 14 minutes in PAC 12 play.

He did get a total of 11 minutes of run in blowout wins for UCLA in the PAC and NCAA tournaments
 
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