Indiana/Crean model for Wake?

[DCDeac]

Give it a rest man. Anyone who wouldn't take those days over these is fuggin nuts. You wouldn't have been so disappointed if those teams weren't so good to begin with. I'll be pleasantly damn surprised if any of Bzz's 4 star recruits have near the talent and ability that James or Jeff did. Burning out in the first round of the NCAA will always be better than struggling to 500 with boring players in a boring system with a boring coach.

Total bullshit. NCAA basketball is about post season success, end of story. And it's a shit comparison anyway. Nobody wants to trade our team that hit #1 in the nation for the team we have now. They want to change the program so that when we have legit talent, we can actually win with it instead of choking and making ourselves a national punch line.

Love how so much of this board has completely forgotten the Cleveland State / first round ACC double-digit exit days. Everyone was watching no-name teams crush us and saying, "why can't we be well coached? Why can't we do anything with this much talent?"

I don't think [Redacted] gets us there, but I know that Dino sure as hell wasn't going to get us there no matter who he managed to recruit. Hopefully once the ship is righted we'll be able to attract a legit coach. Considering our past results and years of futility, I think that anyone who wants to return to bad coaching and praying that 1 or 2 and done talent can come along and save us every year, maybe get us into the tournament only to be crushed by real teams with good coaches, is "fuggin nuts."

[Redacted] gets three years, maybe four. Rewriting history or crying about his hire is just noise that comes with losing. And guess what - we were gonna lose for a couple years even if we'd hired Tebow.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Total bullshit. NCAA basketball is about post season success, end of story. And it's a shit comparison anyway. Nobody wants to trade our team that hit #1 in the nation for the team we have now. They want to change the program so that when we have legit talent, we can actually win with it instead of choking and making ourselves a national punch line.

Love how so much of this board has completely forgotten the Cleveland State / first round ACC double-digit exit days. Everyone was watching no-name teams crush us and saying, "why can't we be well coached? Why can't we do anything with this much talent?"

I don't think [Redacted] gets us there, but I know that Dino sure as hell wasn't going to get us there no matter who he managed to recruit. Hopefully once the ship is righted we'll be able to attract a legit coach. Considering our past results and years of futility, I think that anyone who wants to return to bad coaching and praying that 1 or 2 and done talent can come along and save us every year, maybe get us into the tournament only to be crushed by real teams with good coaches, is "fuggin nuts."

No one gives a shit who went to the Sweet Sixteen or Elite 8 that year. But alot of us do remember being 16-0, and remember storming the court when we beat Duke, and remember Jeff hanging nuts on Gary Neal. No one is re-writing history. The 08-09 team was really good, and they were a lot of fun to watch. It seems like every time someone brings that year up, you go and piss all over it. You weren't the only one who watched the Cleveland St. game. We all saw it, and it sucked, but some of us just choose to stop bitching about it 3 years later. Also, this winning scenario with [Redacted] that you prefer over "bad coaching and 1 & done talent" doesn't exist yet. Like I said earlier, flaming out in the NCAA tournament is always better than struggling to 500 with a boring coach, and boring system.

 

[DiegoTiger]

No one gives a shit who went to the Sweet Sixteen or Elite 8 that year. But alot of us do remember being 16-0, and remember storming the court when we beat Duke, and remember Jeff hanging nuts on Gary Neal. No one is re-writing history. The 08-09 team was really good, and they were a lot of fun to watch. It seems like every time someone brings that year up, you go and piss all over it. You weren't the only one who watched the Cleveland St. game. We all saw it, and it sucked, but some of us just choose to stop bitching about it 3 years later. Also, this winning scenario with [Redacted] that you prefer over "bad coaching and 1 & done talent" doesn't exist yet. Like I said earlier, flaming out in the NCAA tournament is always better than struggling to 500 with a boring coach, and boring system.

That team was very fun to watch, and the ripple effect of their cleveland steam job extended far beyond the Wake community. I had multiple brackets eat a dick when Wake went down. :tear:

 

[TheIshThatSaved WakeForest]

No one has forgotten Cleveland St, but no one has forgotten the fun we had getting to that point either. It probably is for losers to value the ACC regular season victories over Duke and Carolina or the awesome game at BYU, but those are some pretty fond memories. I guess I just value the regular season more than most, but I would take being crushed by shitty teams in March over the apathy that the last couple years has brought on 10 times out of 10.

 

[DCDeac]

No one gives a shit who went to the Sweet Sixteen or Elite 8 that year. But alot of us do remember being 16-0, and remember storming the court when we beat Duke, and remember Jeff hanging nuts on Gary Neal. No one is re-writing history. The 08-09 team was really good, and they were a lot of fun to watch. It seems like every time someone brings that year up, you go and piss all over it. You weren't the only one who watched the Cleveland St. game. We all saw it, and it sucked, but some of us just choose to stop bitching about it 3 years later. Also, this winning scenario with [Redacted] that you prefer over "bad coaching and 1 & done talent" doesn't exist yet. Like I said earlier, flaming out in the NCAA tournament is always better than struggling to 500 with a boring coach, and boring system.

What a ridiculous post. You're comparing a dunk (which I watched in person by the way) to hanging a Sweet 16 banner in the Joel?

Laughable.

You enjoy winning a couple tough games early in the season with some NBA guys for an overrated early #1 ranking that turns out to be nonsense. The only reason Cleveland State comes up is when idiots start reminiscing about the "good old days" of teams that had a couple good wins but eventually tortured our entire fanbase with failure. It's revisionist to say that the fanbase was happy with those teams.

I'll take a rebuilding year or two to put in a system that can get Wake out of the first weekend of the tournament when we do make it back.

Maybe [Redacted] can't make that happen, but all this talk of the sunny days of past years when we won 20 games and had a high ranking for a week ignore the reality of those teams. It's not just Cleveland State. We've been to one Sweet 16 since Duncan left. It's not a small sample size.

And again, NOBODY IS ARGUING they'd rather suck than make the tournament and lose in the first round. There's not one poster on this board who believes [Redacted] shouldn't be fired if his ceiling is .500 and no tournament appearance. Stop making nonsensical arguments.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

What a ridiculous post. You're comparing a dunk (which I watched in person by the way) to hanging a Sweet 16 banner in the Joel?

Laughable.

You enjoy winning a couple tough games early in the season with some NBA guys for an overrated early #1 ranking that turns out to be nonsense. The only reason Cleveland State comes up is when idiots start reminiscing about the "good old days" of teams that had a couple good wins but eventually tortured our entire fanbase with failure. It's revisionist to say that the fanbase was happy with those teams. Stop making nonsensical arguments.

I'm asking you to stop shitting on the few good times we've had in the last 8 years of basketball, because you're still pissed about a busted bracket. Teams get upset. We finished tied for 2nd in the ACC that year, so I think it's ok to remember that season in fondness, especially considering the nosedive we've taken since. It's not revisionist history to say that was a fun year, and you should stop comparing it to some Bzz IN!, gum-drop fairytale which doesn't exist. What really doesn't make sense is that the season you are deriding so much, is probably much better than Bzz is capable of here. So at best, you're always going to be disappointed.

 

[Sgt Hulka]

08-09 Wake Basketball was a MUST for me to watch (or even follow with gametracker) EVERY GAME. Put the schedule in my outlook calendar so I wouldn't schedule anything that conflicted.

Now, I didn't even realize we lost to Richmond for a couple of days. I don't know when our next game is or who we play and don't really care.

That to me is the big difference.

 

[deacvision7]

We play Sunday against some shitty team. Don't remember exactly who tho.

 

[TheIshThatSaved WakeForest]

Remember the outrage when we lost to a non-terrible W&M team at home? I kinda miss caring about that.

 

[DCDeac]

I'm asking you to stop shitting on the few good times we've had in the last 8 years of basketball, because you're still pissed about a busted bracket. Teams get upset. We finished tied for 2nd in the ACC that year, so I think it's ok to remember that season in fondness, especially considering the nosedive we've taken since. It's not revisionist history to say that was a fun year, and you should stop comparing it to some Bzz IN!, gum-drop fairytale which doesn't exist.

I care about our program, not whether for a 2 year stint you forget whether we're on tv or not.

Did I enjoy the early run? Sure, it was damn fun. Couldn't care less about a bracket. You build a program with banners. You build it by winning ACC Championships. You build it in the NCAA tournament when the entire country is watching. You build it by recruiting quality people like Tim Duncan and Chris Paul.

And if you'd bother actually reading my posts they are not BzIn - in fact they are mostly predicting he won't get the job done. You're just a member of our ugliest faction - the guys that shit all over the program now, label anyone with any other viewpoint as Bz-in even if they were not in favor of the hire, and overrate past years that ended in us being a laughing stock as some kind of pinnacle just because we were overrated for a while.

I'm happy to see dicks like Ari get shown the door, even if it hurts us for a year, just like I'm happy that Grobe doesn't put up with nonsense either. I actually care how Wake gets represented.

 

[deacvision7]

If we were a laughing stock the 10 previous seasons to last season, then what the fuck are we now?

 

[DCDeac]

If we were a laughing stock the 10 previous seasons to last season, then what the fuck are we now?

We're rebuilding. I don't like it either. Nobody does. But nationally, if you listen and read the major media outlets, we're considered to be looking better this year with a great recruiting class coming in. [Redacted] is generally regarded as a program builder and his NBA background is pretty well thought of. We've made clear changes to combat the torrent of media-loving headlines about beatings and cheating and suspensions and arrests and sexual assault that has been associated with Wake Forest over the past 2 years.

It sucks. [Redacted] doesn't look like the answer - at best a stepping stone. But virtually nobody outside of the lunatic Wake fringe shares the opinion that [Redacted] is a complete moron or total failure or that Wellman should be removed.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I care about our program, not whether for a 2 year stint you forget whether we're on tv or not.

Did I enjoy the early run? Sure, it was damn fun. Couldn't care less about a bracket. You build a program with banners. You build it by winning ACC Championships. You build it in the NCAA tournament when the entire country is watching. You build it by recruiting quality people like Tim Duncan and Chris Paul.

And if you'd bother actually reading my posts they are not BzIn - in fact they are mostly predicting he won't get the job done. You're just a member of our ugliest faction - the guys that shit all over the program now, label anyone with any other viewpoint as Bz-in even if they were not in favor of the hire, and overrate past years that ended in us being a laughing stock as some kind of pinnacle just because we were overrated for a while.

I'm happy to see dicks like Ari get shown the door, even if it hurts us for a year, just like I'm happy that Grobe doesn't put up with nonsense either. I actually care how Wake gets represented.

Not sure how to respond to this post, but here's a go.

1. I didn't forget about our program, I never miss a game: I either go to the game, watch it on tv, or listen on the radio. I'm actually proud of having bought tickets to multiple games this year, when I could have gone for free. I never give up on the players, even when they are playing like shit, and when I can't stand the coach.

2. You do build a program by hanging banners, but you don't completely write off a good season because you didn't hang a banner. You also build a program by winning impressively on national television against good teams, which we did multiple times that year. Those great wins still left a national impression, even if we lost later on.

3. I could care less whether you are Bzz In, or out, or whatever the fuck. The point is, you keep comparing an as yet non-existent, unlikely scenario with Bzz, to actual good times with a previous team. Dino is gone, and good riddance, but Bzz is still at least 2 seasons away from even nearing Dino's previous success here.

4. We've had up's and downs. 08-09 was an up, sorry you didn't enjoy it very much. If any season gave a "laughing stock" label, it was probably last season, not the season where we went 24-7.

5. I care about how Wake gets represented too, but the point of a basketball team is to win basketball games. I've talked to Ari. Ari really liked Wake, but he was here to play basketball, and he really didn't like Bzz. You shouldn't color everyone that leaves the program as a bad guy.

 

[DCDeac]

I've talked to Ari. Ari really liked Wake, but he was here to play basketball, and he really didn't like Bzz. You shouldn't color everyone that leaves the program as a bad guy.

I agreed with everything you said in that post and simply couldn't put together why you argue the things you do... Until that last comment.

If you don't understand how childish Ari was, from his on-court performances to his bashing of the program in social media, etc - then I don't know what to tell you. Great that you talked to him and felt cool because a player talked to you or was friends with you or whatever. I loved being at Wake, playing ball with Josh Howard, Tim Duncan, CPIII, etc. Meeting and hanging out with those guys was one of the coolest parts about having such a small campus and playing basketball every day.

But Ari is not a story to hold up as "he's a great guy that [Redacted] gave a raw deal to." Ari had a full ride at Wake Forest to play basketball. He quit on the team and, despite any kind words he has about Wake, certainly didn't show it any respect in his departure. He didn't want to just play basketball - he wanted to play Ari Stewart basketball.

I don't have to color Ari as anything. He's made an effort to do so.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I wasn't friends with Ari, and I don't think Bzz gave him a raw deal at all. Ari was wrong for quitting on the team last year. In hindsight, Ari should have transferred when Dino was fired, rather than staying on with Bzz for a season, it probably would have helped our team chemistry last season.
My point about Ari is that I can't fault a player for getting upset and leaving a program when his coach was fired under false pretenses. Ari should have been alot more mature about it, but his actions are understandable.

 

[DCDeac]

I wasn't friends with Ari, and I don't think Bzz gave him a raw deal at all. Ari was wrong for quitting on the team last year. In hindsight, Ari should have transferred when Dino was fired, rather than staying on with Bzz for a season, it probably would have helped our team chemistry last season.
My point about Ari is that I can't fault a player for getting upset and leaving a program when his coach was fired under false pretenses. Ari should have been alot more mature about it, but his actions are understandable.

They are not understandable in any way that would paint Ari as a quality guy.

We're bashing Maryland for their transfers doing far less. You're clearly not being objective here.

 

[ChrisL68]

We are way more of a laughing stock now than we ever thought of being under Dino.

Teams get upset in the postseason.

 

[wfumike02]

They are not understandable in any way that would paint Ari as a quality guy.

We're bashing Maryland for their transfers doing far less. You're clearly not being objective here.

I thought we were bashing Maryland because their terrible coaching hire was chasing all the talent away? Come to think about it, that might be something we're familiar with...

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

We're bashing Maryland for their transfers doing far less. You're clearly not being objective here.

Ari had a lot more personal investment in the Dino coaching staff and the regime change than I did, so I could give a shit whether he acts out on twitter or not. I love MSD, but she fucks some people over, and I'm not going to judge them for getting pissy about it. 5 or 6 tweets are supremely insignificant in the scheme of things, especially since they seem to have had no ill effect on our incoming recruiting class. Everything that Ari said on twitter is replicated by students not showing up to games, and season ticket holders not re-upping, but we aren't going to bat an eyelash when they all come crawling back at the first hint of a 20 win season.

 

[DCDeac]

We are way more of a laughing stock now than we ever thought of being under Dino.

Teams get upset in the postseason.

Ha. Yeah, that explains it. If you're ever curious as to why you take so much shit on this board, just refer to statements like that one.