Indiana/Crean model for Wake?

[ChrisL68]

Ha. Yeah, that explains it. If you're ever curious as to why you take so much shit on this board, just refer to statements like that one.

Why are you so angry and bitter?

Are you seriously contending that we were more of a laughing stock when we got upset by Cleveland State than last year when we had an historically terrible team?

 

[DCDeac]

Ari had a lot more personal investment in the Dino coaching staff and basketball program than I ever will, so I could give a shit whether he acts out on twitter or not. I love MSD, but she fucks some people over, and I'm not going to judge them for getting pissy about it. 5 or 6 tweets are supremely insignificant in the scheme of things, especially since they seem to have had no ill effect on our incoming recruiting class.

Fine. You're the one that called me out for "coloring" Ari the wrong way. You've just done the exact same thing. It bothers me, it doesn't bother you, I really don't care.

 

[DCDeac]

Why are you so angry and bitter?

I'm not angry or bitter. Why would you saying something as stupid as "teams get upset in the postseason" as some sort of pathetic rationalization for our recent history say anything about me?

I think we're looking better this year and am hoping we'll continue to improve and set the stage for a great recruiting class to come in. You realize as a Bz-fencer what I get attacked for being overly positive and optimistic, right?

I would say the dv7's and other BzzOut folks who constantly ridicule [Redacted], make personal attacks, etc - they are far more bitter and angry than the other groups.

 

[deacvision7]

Man, you are one pompous dude.

 

[DCDeac]

Man, you are one pompous dude.

What does that make you? My entire point is that I lean toward not believing [Redacted] will pull this off but that I hope he will.

You act like you know 100% that he can't even tie his shoes. You insult him routinely at a personal level even though you've never had a conversation with him.

Pure hypocrisy.

 

[deacvision7]

I'm an asshole, you are pompous in just about everything you post.

 

[DCDeac]

I'm an asshole, you are pompous in just about everything you post.

I mean, considering your view that you know everything and can't possibly be wrong, and my view that it's possible it could work out and possible that it won't, and most likely [Redacted] will be a stepping stone to a better coach...

Then yes, from your point of view I'd have to sound pompous, because I'm 100% sure you're full of shit since you have no inside ties to the program whatsoever, and I am simply leaning one way and leaving open the possibility for any number of outcomes.

Congrats on calling yourself an asshole though. Being pompous, fyi, is a big part of your achieving that status.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

What does that make you? My entire point is that I lean toward not believing [Redacted] will pull this off but that I hope he will.

You act like you know 100% that he can't even tie his shoes. You insult him routinely at a personal level even though you've never had a conversation with him.

Pure hypocrisy.

I don't understand why you are turning this into a Bzz In/Bzz out argument. You're thoughts on Bzz and this team are perfectly rational and understandable. It's your vitriol towards anything Dino related that I'm trying to understand. When we were talking about the Clemson game, you could have just said "Yeah, that was an awesome game, too bad we lost to Cleveland St." Instead of joining in on the positive reminiscing, you were just a dick about it and pissed on the fun. Why?

 

[ChrisL68]

DCDeac has long had ridiculous takes on anything Dino related and is completely arrogant about his incorrect opinion.

 

[ChrisL68]

I'm not angry or bitter. Why would you saying something as stupid as "teams get upset in the postseason" as some sort of pathetic rationalization for our recent history say anything about me?

I think we're looking better this year and am hoping we'll continue to improve and set the stage for a great recruiting class to come in. You realize as a Bz-fencer what I get attacked for being overly positive and optimistic, right?

I would say the dv7's and other BzzOut folks who constantly ridicule [Redacted], make personal attacks, etc - they are far more bitter and angry than the other groups.

If you would engage your brain, the fact that teams get upset in the postseason makes a 24-7 team that loses in the 1st round of the NCAA not a national laughingstock like you suggest. That is reserved for 8-24 teams.

Vanderbilt has lost their last 3 first round games. Do you think anybody considers their program a laughingstock?

 

[DCDeac]

I don't understand why you are turning this into a Bzz In/Bzz out argument. You're thoughts on Bzz and this team are perfectly rational and understandable. It's your vitriol towards anything Dino related that I'm trying to understand. When we were talking about the Clemson game, you could have just said "Yeah, that was an awesome game, too bad we lost to Cleveland St." But instead, you were a dick about it. Why?

Ah. Well, I certainly don't have vitriol towards Dino. I liked Dino, supported his promotion, and was sad that it didn't work out and I hope he coaches somewhere else and get the experience he needs to end up back at a program like Wake.

I have some negative memories for the Teague Johnson team that was out in a hotel room the night before the Cleveland State game watching out for Gary getting a hummer in the bathroom. I also have some fantastic memories of that team, and as a Hawks fan I love watching Teague play and hope he starts all year.

I come off as overly bitter, I'm sure, because I think mocking this year team by measuring them again a #1 ranking is completely unfair, especially considering it's usually an attack on [Redacted] who was clearly limited by what he inherited. We were going to be rebuilding no matter who we hired, so I find it unfair to:

1) Measure him against one of our most talented teams ever
and
2) Only refer to that teams one-week ranking and a couple fun games to make it seem like they were what we want to be

Because what I think we want, and what even BzOuters quote, is Butler-esque. Repeated deep tourney runs with excellent coaching, good kids, 100% effort, and a program that follows the standards of Wake Forest.

 

[DCDeac]

DCDeac has long had ridiculous takes on anything Dino related and is completely arrogant about his incorrect opinion.

Hmmmm. The more ridiculous take...

My take:

Dino's promotion was understandable to keep the recruits, but even though he got in talent his postseason results were unacceptable. Double digit losses to worse seeds in every ACC tournament first round, getting picked as the upset special and then making it happen again CS, following an incredibly fortunate Texas win with a total blowout loss to Kentucky, etc. Consistently poor late season play, mismanaged rotations, time outs, and poor in-game strategy, lack of adjustments. Great guy, but not a good head coach for Wake Forest.

Your take:

Teams get upset in the postseason.

 

[ChrisL68]

Hmmmm. The more ridiculous take...

My take:

Dino's promotion was understandable to keep the recruits, but even though he got in talent his postseason results were unacceptable. Double digit losses to worse seeds in every ACC tournament first round, getting picked as the upset special and then making it happen again CS, following an incredibly fortunate Texas win with a total blowout loss to Kentucky, etc. Consistently poor late season play, mismanaged rotations, time outs, and poor in-game strategy, lack of adjustments. Great guy, but not a good head coach for Wake Forest.

Your take:

Teams get upset in the postseason.

My comment was in reference to your assertion that we were a laughing stock under Dino. the rest of this is just you building a very shoddy strawman.

Is mismanaged rotations part of your ridiculous assertion that Dino didn't play 4th string center Ty Walker enough when he sat on the bench behind Carson last year as a junior on a team with no post depth. That was a knee-slapper.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I come off as overly bitter, I'm sure, because I think mocking this year team by measuring them again a #1 ranking is completely unfair, especially considering it's usually an attack on [Redacted] who was clearly limited by what he inherited. We were going to be rebuilding no matter who we hired, so I find it unfair to:

1) Measure him against one of our most talented teams ever
and
2) Only refer to that teams one-week ranking and a couple fun games to make it seem like they were what we want to be

Because what I think we want, and what even BzOuters quote, is Butler-esque. Repeated deep tourney runs with excellent coaching, good kids, 100% effort, and a program that follows the standards of Wake Forest.

We didn't bring up the 08-09 team to compare them to the current team. We only brought them up because The Reff made a stupid post about how we showboated against Indiana that year. I can't think of a rational connection between our 08-09 team and being Bzz-out, besides our currently un-met potential for great recruits and big game crowds.

 

[DCDeac]

We didn't bring up the 08-09 team to compare them to the current team. We only brought them up because The Reff made a stupid post about how we showboated against Indiana that year. I can't think of a rational connection between our 08-09 team and being Bzz-out, besides our currently un-met potential for great recruits and big game crowds.

Sorry, that was probably more in response to the Hulka posts directly comparing them.

I just ignore the Refs posts because they are some of the few truly worthless ones on the boards.

 

[DCDeac]

My comment was in reference to your assertion that we were a laughing stock under Dino. the rest of this is just you building a very shoddy strawman.

Is mismanaged rotations part of your ridiculous assertion that Dino didn't play 4th string center Ty Walker enough when he sat on the bench behind Carson last year as a junior on a team with no post depth. That was a knee-slapper.

I love how you use the term "straw man" and then follow it up with a straw man in the very next sentence.

My assertion you're referring to was actually in response to [Redacted] giving significant minutes to a walk-on point guard who might have been forced to play due to Chennault's injury. Even though the fanbase was rabid about losses, he risked an easy win to give the kid playing time in a game situation against a weak early season team. Dino never really did that - he played our best guys every game and really didn't use early games to get 2nd and 3rd string guys significant minutes. I think that hurt us in the long run and was partially responsible for late season burn-out. I believe I quoted Ty's complete lack of minutes against joke teams as evidence of a lack of attention to player development. Saying Ty never developed really just supports that assertion, it doesn't negate it.

By the way, a straw man argument can't just be a quote. All I did was quote exactly what you wrote.

 

[tiltdeac]

08-09 Wake Basketball was a MUST for me to watch (or even follow with gametracker) EVERY GAME. Put the schedule in my outlook calendar so I wouldn't schedule anything that conflicted.

Now, I didn't even realize we lost to Richmond for a couple of days. I don't know when our next game is or who we play and don't really care.

That to me is the big difference.

We play Sunday against some shitty team. Don't remember exactly who tho.

Remember the outrage when we lost to a non-terrible W&M team at home? I kinda miss caring about that.

I totally get this sentiment, and it sucks. It's much harder to drum up any sort of excitement right now. But where everyone loses me is when they try and lay the blame for this on our coach. The fans at large aren't apathetic because our coach is terrible in the media, wears atrocious ties and doesn't "connect" with the fanbase. They aren't apathetic because he wasn't an exciting hire. They are apathetic because we suck at basketball. And I think you can make a pretty good argument that the circumstances that lead to our sucking were largely out of Bzzz's control.

We all loved Skip. He was the best I've ever seen at engaging the fans and rarely took a wrong step in the media. But a lot of that rings hollow if you don't have the product on the court to support it. I'd love it if Bzz was better at those things, but what he really needs to do to get the excitment back is to win. All the other stuff is just pissing in an ocean (of losses) at this point. Let's hope this next recruiting class can help bring the excitment back.

Bottom line is I get the apathy. I just think the angst and blame for that apathy is being misplaced.

 

[ChrisL68]

I love how you use the term "straw man" and then follow it up with a straw man in the very next sentence.

My assertion you're referring to was actually in response to [Redacted] giving significant minutes to a walk-on point guard who might have been forced to play due to Chennault's injury. Even though the fanbase was rabid about losses, he risked an easy win to give the kid playing time in a game situation against a weak early season team. Dino never really did that - he played our best guys every game and really didn't use early games to get 2nd and 3rd string guys significant minutes. I think that hurt us in the long run and was partially responsible for late season burn-out. I believe I quoted Ty's complete lack of minutes against joke teams as evidence of a lack of attention to player development. Saying Ty never developed really just supports that assertion, it doesn't negate it.

By the way, a straw man argument can't just be a quote. All I did was quote exactly what you wrote.

Sure it can, when you interpret an argument that was never made.

Bzzzz had no choice due to our lack of depth. The walk-on played because Chennault was out I seriously doubt you will see 4th string players getting much playing time when Bzzz has that level of depth.

 

[JamesSokolove]

Tom Crean (Big Ten Conference) (2008–present)



2008–09

Tom Crean

6–25

1–17

11th

––



2009–10

Tom Crean

10–21

4–14

9th

––



2010–11

Tom Crean

12-20

3-15

11th


Now 9-0 including beating #1 KY.

We'll do better in Year 3 than he did.

RJ was on point. Year 4 was Crean's watershed year - Danny has to make it happen.

 

[Wrangor]

I totally get this sentiment, and it sucks. It's much harder to drum up any sort of excitement right now. But where everyone loses me is when they try and lay the blame for this on our coach. The fans at large aren't apathetic because our coach is terrible in the media, wears atrocious ties and doesn't "connect" with the fanbase. They aren't apathetic because he wasn't an exciting hire. They are apathetic because we suck at basketball. And I think you can make a pretty good argument that the circumstances that lead to our sucking were largely out of Bzzz's control.

We all loved Skip. He was the best I've ever seen at engaging the fans and rarely took a wrong step in the media. But a lot of that rings hollow if you don't have the product on the court to support it. I'd love it if Bzz was better at those things, but what he really needs to do to get the excitment back is to win. All the other stuff is just pissing in an ocean (of losses) at this point. Let's hope this next recruiting class can help bring the excitment back.

Bottom line is I get the apathy. I just think the angst and blame for that apathy is being misplaced.

So this is an un-good post.


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