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CBM: X-Men '97 finale; My Adventures with Superman S2 May 25; The Boys S4 June 13

Spot on, not to mention the fact that the theme of the psychological toil of being Batman (or that of fear in the first movie) was far more pronounced and consistent than anything from TDK. Much of the action in the second film was dictated by a villain whose aim was chaos; of course this one is going to be more unified.

Couldn't disagree more. Dent was essential to the plot of TDK. Having civilians being murdered because you won't reveal your identity isn't psychological toil? I refuse to listen to any argument saying this movie is the best without having seen TDK again in the last 24-48 hours.
 
Having civilians being murdered because you won't reveal your identity isn't psychological toil? I refuse to listen to any argument saying this movie is the best without having seen TDK again in the last 24-48 hours.

You just made my point for me. In TDK, the theme of psychological toil, to the extent it exists, is largely limited to a few short scenes and is resolved relatively early in the movie due to the actions of an outside character that precluded Batman from having to struggle with and overcome it. (Dawes's death doesn't count, because he would have been equally anguished at her murder as Bruce Wayne.) In DKR, on the other hand, the theme is evident from the very first scene with Bruce, indeed by the conversation in the garden party even before he's introduced, and carries through to the conclusion, with him ultimately deciding the burden is too much to bear. A bit more pronounced, wouldn't you say?

Thematic and plot unity was one of the major strengths of the movie. Batman's was about the costs and burden of continuing on in his role. JGL's was about finding and protecting the people he cared about. Even Bane's actions, again from the outset, were all directed towards harnessing the reactor and using it to destroy Gotham. Contrast that against the Joker's scatter-shot approach, which, while I felt it was more frightening due to its erratic nature, wasn't nearly as cohesive or continuous as Bane's actions.
 
The Joker was never supposed to be cohesive or continuous. That's the entire point of the character.
 
As I've thought about it more, it seems to me now that Bane wasn't really intended to be a very strong villain as much as a plot device to bring together other aspects of the story.
 
The Joker was never supposed to be cohesive or continuous. That's the entire point of the character.

Which is why it's mind-boggling that anyone would think this film was less unified than the last.
 
Saw this Saturday morning in IMax. My $0.02 review is that it was more fun and faster-paced than either BB or TDK, but not nearly as cohesive or provocative as TDK or as fresh as BB. In terms of sheer entertainment value, it's a perfectly enjoyable 2.5 hour action movie, and a worthy end to a great trilogy. But a great movie, it was not.

I had a few issues with the film. First and foremost, I found the plot and accompanying screenplay to be incredibly bloated. There were far too many middling, secondary characters with too much screentime and too little impact on the direction of the plot (e.g., Matthew Modine's character, John Daggett, even John Blake). I also found the editing, particularly in the 1st and 2nd acts, to be rather sloppy and haphazard; it felt like Nolan was trying to provide exposition on so many sub-topics and themes from BB and TDK that he ended up lots and lots of short scenes with clunky dialogue all bound up into a 166-minute mess. Particularly coming off TDK and Inception--the latter of which is among the most precise films I've ever seen, certainly for an action/suspense film--I was a little surprised by how wobbly and uneven I found all the various story threads in the film.

Second, I loved Bane, I loved what Tom Hardy did with the voice, and I honestly don't believe any other director could've translated Bane from the comics to the big screen as effectively and non-campy as Nolan did. That said, I was disappointed in Bane's "plan" and overall arc as a villian. At the end of the day he was basically a mercenary terrorist with a plot to hold Gotham hostage with a nuclear bomb. Supervillian-in-possession-of-hugeass-bomb is a pretty tired formula and it surprised me to see Nolan and Goyer fall back on such a hackneyed premise. (I mean come on, the bomb even had a timer ticking down on the side of it. Seriously?) The reveal with Talia was well-timed, but could've been executed more powerfully; I wish the film had explored Bane and Talia's relationship more and given us a better insight as to Bane's motivations and intentions. As it was, he was basically shown as a huge badass who took people hostage, talked a lot, wore brown/khaki/earthtones at all times, fights like a drunken boxer on roids, and apparently only does whatever Talia wants/tells him to do. Meh. True, it's completely unfair to compare Bane to Ledger's Joker, but I thought Nolan could've done more with the character.

I have some smaller knits too. Thought Hans Zimmer's score was overwrought and heavy-handed, going to the "percussion mixed with unintelligible chanting" well one time too many. I also found the sound mix to be very uneven, with the music drowning out and obscuring lots of the dialogue, particularly in the action scenes. And there was some pretty blatant continuity errors and abuses of any notion of suspension of disbelief. (E.g., if there was a magical knee brace to cure Wayne's bum knee, why wait 8 years to put it on? Or, so all it takes to recover from a broken back is a few dozen push-ups? And are we really to believe that those 3,000 police officers were held hostage in the sewers for 5 months, or that Bruce Wayne found his way from Mexico to Gotham in about a day despite the fact that the city had apparently been held hostage for nigh half a year?) And yes, Bane died far too abruptly. You can't spend 2.5 hours building up a villain like that and then eliminate in a split-second with a gunshot from a secondary character. Weak all the way around.

The movie did some things incredibly well. I thought Hathaway completely nailed Selina Kyle and somehow made the role of "Catwoman" not utterly ridiculous or specious on screen, quite a feat given Nolan's universe. The first fight between Bane and Batman was probably the single most compelling combat scene in the trilogy; it was paced and set up tremendously, and I loved the total absence of musical cues. Just made it feel that much more ruthless and frightening given what we see Bane do to Batman. That's another thing; Nolan has clearly improved in his own technique filming fight scenes, which were woefully inadequate in BB. (Then again, I've read that the editing and cutting of the fight scenes in BB was partly due to Bale not having sufficient time to undergo combat training before filming.)

Overall, a solid if uneven action movie, and good end to a great trilogy. TDK it was not, but TDKR did enough things well to make it worth praising and rewatching.
 
I did the marathon, so I've seen TDK recently. After having seen TDKR multiple times, and thinking on it for a while, I would say it is the best of the bunch. Zimmer's score for this is the best of the three, and it is used liberally throughout the movie, and combine that with the accompanying images and there are multiple scenes that are breathtaking, and Nolan brings the whole thing together tremendously. Bane is the perfect villain, he plays into this movies theme of despair vs. hope, and into the whole series' theme of fear and identity. His mask is his weakness and his strength, much like it is for Bruce Wayne. He strikes fear into people with his mask, but underneath he is a flawed, highly sympathetic character. That's why in the last fight, when Batman "breaks" his mask, much like Bane did to Bats in the first fight, Bane is defeated. He is already a broken man, the mask is the only thing keeping him alive. He is the perfect foil to Bruce Wayne. Nolan also crams an extraordinarily large amount of plot into 2 hrs 45 mins, and it's pretty miraculous how well he manages to wrap it all up, and do so coherently and satisfactorily, while also bringing the whole trilogy to a triumphant end. I also find the Talia reveal, and subsequent speech, while Bane begins to cry (Hardy is beyond miraculous in this role) to hold an extreme amount of pathos, and to be just as emotionally resonant as the Dent/Two-Face speech at the end of TDK ("We were decent men in an indecent time!"). This isn't just good superhero filmmaking, it's grand scale filmmaking at its finest.
 
KidA- I am not going to quote your whole post, but that's some good shit. Pretty much agree with everything you said. My biggest question (which I posed far less eloquently) is around the Bane/Talia relationship. How did he go from her protector to her pawn?
 
I saw it a second time at the IMAX this weekend.. the action sequences are unreal. Overall I liked it even more after the 2nd viewing, it's right there with TDK for me now but I'm admittedly a huge nostalgic pussy so the final 10 minutes or so pandered to me. Definitely a great way to wrap it all up.

Can't wait for Michael Bay to get greenlit for the Robin movies.
 
Just saw the movie this morning. Bane is a total badass. His voice is perfect. I don't like how Batman was eventually able to beat him in essentially a plain physical fight at the end though. I think they should have stuck with the precedent that Bane is invincible in 1 on 1 combat but Batman could have beaten him with a clever hole in his plan. Would have been hard to implement though since Bane has genius-level intelligence and impeccable strategy. Overall, I think TDK was a little better but TDKR is a great movie.
 
i didn't read the comics - was robin in them? i vaguely remember him sometimes being in the adam west version from old reruns, but i thought his name was dick grayson or something. now his name is robin?
 
i didn't read the comics - was robin in them? i vaguely remember him sometimes being in the adam west version from old reruns, but i thought his name was dick grayson or something. now his name is robin?

In the comics, there have been about a half dozen Robins, depending on what continuity you're talking about.

The more well known ones were Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and the current incarnation Damian Wayne.

Dick went on to become Nightwing (Briefly was Batman following Final Crisis). Jason was murdered by the Joker (his death played a major role in Batman's life for years) and eventually returned following a crisis event. Tim Drake went on to become Red Robin.
 
I'm having a hard time with KidA's statement that the John Blake character had "too much screen time and too little impact on the direction of the plot." He might have been the best part of the movie and obviously his story is crucial to the trilogy's ending.
 
In the comics, there have been about a half dozen Robins, depending on what continuity you're talking about.

The more well known ones were Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and the current incarnation Damian Wayne.

Dick went on to become Nightwing (Briefly was Batman following Final Crisis). Jason was murdered by the Joker (his death played a major role in Batman's life for years) and eventually returned following a crisis event. Tim Drake went on to become Red Robin.

I'm going to assume that isledeac's eyes are glazed over and his mind is blown by reading that post. isledeac, I'll sum up Deadbolt's post for you below:

Yes.
 
Bane's line to the stock traders was hilarious as well

Yeah, the Rush criticism was ridiculous. This movie was more of a conservative apocalypse in which the tree hugger/Occupy crowd rules and the rich aren't there to keep them in their proper place.
 
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