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NC Rep: Planned Parenthood is murder for hire

I just find it humorous that, generally speaking, conservatives oppose abortion but approve of us bombing the shit out of Ahab the Arab and executing criminals, while liberals love to allow women to kill fetuses because (in the overwhelming majority of cases) the consequences of the women's actions are somehow too much of a burden for her to accept herself, but vehemently oppose killing adults as consequences for their own actions or in a war context. The hypocricy on both sides is unbelievable.

I personally oppose abortion, but I don't care if someone else wants to do it. My only request is that, if a woman is allowed to legally kill a fetus that she thinks is too much of a drain on her, then I should be able to go around and legally kill anyone who I think is too much of drain on me.
 
Is that "person" inside your body? Are you going to shove the person you want to be able to kill up your ass and keep him there?
 
Skydog Deac said:
I'm assuming keeper and jhmd2000 are also against capital punishment since they both believe in the sanctity of life. But many on the right are not, which is an entirely inconsistent position.
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innocent babies not convicted killers.
 
I'm not sure how that is relevant. That person is not in my body because I did not (in the vast majority of cases) voluntarily choose to put him inside me. He is still a drain on me and a pain in my ass, so I should be able to kill someone if she gets to kill someone.

ETA: responding to RJ
 
DeaconSig said:
The most basic way I can say it is this: when my wife suffered through two miscarriages, we didn't have kids that died. She had miscarriages. We didn't have funeral or memorial services, the miscarried fetuses weren't buried or cremated (at least not in any sort of ceremony), and we don't memorialize the birthdays of those fetuses (probably, because, you know, THEY WEREN'T BORN).

There is a distinction between a living, breathing child and a fetus in the womb. I agree that the line gets awfully blurry after a certain point (23 + weeks give or take), but there is still a distinction. And for the time being, I am completely comfortable letting the actual person, not the fetus, make a decision on whether they want to grow something inside them and take responsibility for raising it after it is born.

Abortion is an ugly, ugly process. In a perfect world, there would be no unwanted pregnancies, no pregnancies where the fetus had such severe deformations that it would not likely survive birth, no pregnancies that put the mother's life at risk. But that is not the world we live in. Until that world comes, I'm not taking the right of control of their own bodies away from women.
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I agree with your last paragraph. That's why I said I dont think we should outlaw abortion.

I'm sorry about your wife's miscarriages, but that doesnt change my opinion about whether it was life or not. I'm sure that was a very upsetting experience for the two of you. I doubt it was upsetting because you two looked at each other and said we just lost an inanimate object. It was upsetting because the life that was in your wife's womb, which would one day be born and be your child, ceased to exist. The fact that there was no funeral or birthday is completely irrelevant and meaningless to the larger question of life.
 
Les Grossman said:
I agree with your last paragraph. That's why I said I dont think we should outlaw abortion.

I'm sorry about your wife's miscarriages, but that doesnt change my opinion about whether it was life or not. I'm sure that was a very upsetting experience for the two of you. I doubt it was upsetting because you two looked at each other and said we just lost an inanimate object. It was upsetting because the life that was in your wife's womb, which would one day be born and be your child, ceased to exist. The fact that there was no funeral or birthday is completely irrelevant and meaningless to the larger question of life.
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Not necessarily. It's not either "an inanimate object" or "a life." They could've been upset about the loss of the potential of life and plans they had made for the child's future and their hopes and expectations. Also, I think it's a little presumptuous for you to tell Sig why they were upset.
 
Ill Let the Right outlaw abortions if I we are allowed to put birth control in the water like fluoride, or at birth get implanted with a microchip preventing pregnancy. The only way you can then become pregnant is receiving a prescription to counteract said drug/implant.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I just find it humorous that, generally speaking, conservatives oppose abortion but approve of us bombing the shit out of Ahab the Arab and executing criminals, while liberals love to allow women to kill fetuses because (in the overwhelming majority of cases) the consequences of the women's actions are somehow too much of a burden for her to accept herself, but vehemently oppose killing adults as consequences for their own actions or in a war context. The hypocricy on both sides is unbelievable.

I personally oppose abortion, but I don't care if someone else wants to do it. My only request is that, if a woman is allowed to legally kill a fetus that she thinks is too much of a drain on her, then I should be able to go around and legally kill anyone who I think is too much of drain on me.
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Why not? This is about YOUR rights Double Deuce. Let's not distract the issue by focusing on someone else's right to live. How does their life impact you?
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
Ill Let the Right outlaw abortions if I we are allowed to put birth control in the water like fluoride, or at birth get implanted with a microchip preventing pregnancy. The only way you can then become pregnant is receiving a prescription to counteract said drug/implant.
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Interesting that someone with an avatar of Hitler dancing would be in favor of state-controlled social engineering...
 
jhmd2000 said:
Why not? This is about YOUR rights Double Deuce. Let's not distract the issue by focusing on someone else's right to live. How does their life impact you?
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You're very liberal with that term "someone". How do you feel about this: A woman knows that she runs a very high risk of miscarriage, but refuses to go the hospital and the baby dies. Is that ok? Or should it have been illegal for her to avoid medical treatment?
 
DeacLaw05 said:
Interesting that someone with an avatar of Hitler dancing would be in favor of state-controlled social engineering...
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Its from the Pit Olympics representing the country of Germany, and it would be as much control as those who favor telling woman they can not get abortions. Also its only as much control as you wish, if the counteracting drug was available to everyone freely then the only hurdle to having a child would be to go get the drug. This makes one think about having a child, no different than making someone get a vaginal probe before having an abortion.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Not necessarily. It's not either "an inanimate object" or "a life." They could've been upset about the loss of the potential of life and plans they had made for the child's future and their hopes and expectations. Also, I think it's a little presumptuous for you to tell Sig why they were upset.
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1. If it isnt "life", then what is it? It's one or the other.
2. I find it ironic that the sentence preceeding you calling me presumptuous, you do the exact same thing you called me presumptuous for.
3. Regardless, I dont find it presumptuous. I'm sure Sig and his wife were very upset when they found out about their miscarriages. I wasnt trying to call him out. He brought a very personal topic to this discussion. One that I thought sheds a very good light on the conversation - i.e., what is a fetus? I merely replied in kind. I was not trying to be rude in any way. Moreover, how is it presumptuous to say a couple was upset about a miscarriage because they just lost something that was going to be their child? Is there any other reason why one would be upset over a miscarriage?

ETA: Again, I'm not in favor of outlawing abortion. I just dont understand how one cannot call a fetus "life." It's 100% a living organism. You can call it a parasite if you want. But, it's still a living organism.
 
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Les Grossman said:
1. If it isnt "life", then what is it? It's one or the other.
2. I find it ironic that the sentence preceeding you calling me presumptuous, you do the exact same thing you called me presumptuous for.
3. Regardless, I dont find it presumptuous. I'm sure Sig and his wife were very upset when they found out about their miscarriages. I wasnt trying to call him out. He brought a very personal topic to this discussion. One that I thought sheds a very good light on the conversation - i.e., what is a fetus? I merely replied in kind. I was not trying to be rude in any way. Moreover, how is it presumptuous to say a couple was upset about a miscarriage because they just lost something that was going to be their child? Is there any other reason why one would be upset over a miscarriage?

ETA: Again, I'm not in favor of outlawing abortion. I just dont understand how one cannot call a fetus "life." It's 100% a living organism. You can call it a parasite if you want. But, it's still a living organism.
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It's the Britney Spears dilemma, not a parasite, not yet a person.
 
Les Grossman said:
1. If it isnt "life", then what is it? It's one or the other.
2. I find it ironic that the sentence preceeding you calling me presumptuous, you do the exact same thing you called me presumptuous for.
3. Regardless, I dont find it presumptuous. I'm sure Sig and his wife were very upset when they found out about their miscarriages. I wasnt trying to call him out. He brought a very personal topic to this discussion. One that I thought sheds a very good light on the conversation - i.e., what is a fetus? I merely replied in kind. I was not trying to be rude in any way. Moreover, how is it presumptuous to say a couple was upset about a miscarriage because they just lost something that was going to be their child? Is there any other reason why one would be upset over a miscarriage?

ETA: Again, I'm not in favor of outlawing abortion. I just dont understand how one cannot call a fetus "life." It's 100% a living organism. You can call it a parasite if you want. But, it's still a living organism.
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It seemed to me in your original post that you were saying "The reason you were upset is that it was a life ending." My point was that there were other things that could have made them upset about it other than a life ending.
 
Skydog Deac said:
This is about a woman's rights.
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I think about this issue a lot, and I've studied it quite a bit in multiple medical ethics classes (whatever that's worth). If you are going to be pro-choice, then I think this is the best response to anti-abortionists. If you try to make this issue about life, viability, or personhood, then you run into a whole bunch of moral relativism (at least I do). Most people aren't comfortable with that, so they start contorting their position to avoid the logical extrapolations that stem from their line in the sand. Throw in a political message board, and you've got a bunch of people shouting past each other. Situation normal.
 
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