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We are heading to secession from the NCAA

Make it stop Swofford- go get ND as a full time member even if it means letting them keep their TV deal.
 
OldGoldBeard said:
Actually, I posted that, "There is no plausible scenario in which the PAC-12, SEC, B1G, and Big 12 all go to 16 teams, unless you think they're going to be inviting the likes of Wyoming and SDSU." You quoted and took issue with that post, responding with what was at best condescension and at worst an insult in "You're thinking regionally." Now you're trying to change what was clearly and indisputably the premise of my post and your response. Is that because, A. You're backpedaling because you know you're wrong, B. You didn't actually bother to read my post before responding and misinterpreted it, or C. You were being a prick for no reason? Answer me that and I'll get to your question.
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I took issue with your idea that conferences could only expand within their immediate area. That was a faulty foundation to your premise. I don't agree with you or Reff on specifics. I presented my own reasonable worst case.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
My guess is that they turned down the B1G already.
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Agreed. I think B1G wants the best teams, rather than just "contiguous markets". Maryland and Rutgers certainly don't have the same cache as Penn State or Nebraska. I think the big boys said 'no thanks'.

Let's not kid ourselves, Carolina is to the ACC what Texas is to the BIG XII outside of the revenue sharing. It's a situation where the league offices are literally in their backyard-why would they ever give that up?
 
Again, the B10 had to go down to not good enough to git an ACC invite Rutgers for member 14. Sounds like they were reaching to me.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Again, the B10 had to go down to not good enough to git an ACC invite Rutgers for member 14. Sounds like they were reaching to me.
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You don't understand at all what the B1G's expansion is about. They just boosted their household fee in NYC/NJ and MD/ No. VA from $.12 to $.36. That is big money. The payout will be over $40 million per school in the next few years. The other significant factor is that every school in the B1G except for Nebraska is a member of the AAU. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities Nebraska will regain their membership in the next few years. Ga Tech and UNC are both AAU members and would deliver significant TV markets (and cable fees) that the B1G doesn't have right now. If the ACC implodes that would be my guess as to who the last two teams in to the B1G are.
 
Again, I find it hard to believe that the cable companies aren't going to balk at this agreement at some point. The NFL network had to fight tooth and nail to get in here.
 
FreeStateDeac said:
One thing is absolutely certain: If the ACC implodes we will end up at the Div. II level, or thereabouts. Take a look at the Nate Silver column today on the NY Times website analyzing the Maryland/Rutgers move to the B1G, and in particular, click on the link in that column to his analysis of the actual fan following of all BCS conference teams, which gives you an idea of their TV appeal.

Guess what? Wake Forest has the smallest fan following nationally of ANY team in a BCS conference. We bring nothing to the table for any major college conference. We are paying the price for decades of generally mediocre basketball (no Final Four trip in half a century) -- a sport in which we could and should have done much better than we did -- and less-than-mediocre football.

And maybe as a small private school with a tiny alumni base located in a small market, we should just stop the charade of trying to compete with big state universities in football and get into a mid-major league where we can play at our level in basketball. Of course, that would still require getting a decent coach.
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Mid-major: Definitely the logical and most likely conclusion, given the path we are on. Based on the lack of interest in BB/FB from our current student enrollment, it would seem they would fit that situation. Were it not for K, Duke would be in the same situation. My alternate solution is a conference made up of schools like us that are not necessarily mid-major.
 
PhDeac said:
I took issue with your idea that conferences could only expand within their immediate area.
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And then proceeded to give a doomsday scenario that consisted of conferences only expanding within their immediate area. Brilliant. In fact, let's take another look at the post in question.

This. There is no plausible scenario in which the PAC-12, SEC, B1G, and Big 12 all go to 16 teams, unless you think they're going to be inviting the likes of Wyoming and SDSU. The Big 12's problem is that they're hemmed in by three more powerful conferences that have each stolen at least one of the Big 12's teams in the past few years. Our conference may be weaker, but we're totally insulated from the PAC-12, the SEC has no interest in our teams, and the B1G is already at 14--at worst they'd take ND and GT.
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The only two things remotely regional in there are: 1. The Big 12's problem is that they're hemmed in by three more powerful conferences that have each stolen at least one of the Big 12's teams in the past few years and 2. We're totally insulated from the PAC-12. The first is an indisputable fact, which means you must have thought the "faulty" regional thinking was in the second. So please, Ph, give me a scenario in which the PAC-12 steals one of our teams. I cannot wait to hear it.

As to your question, no, I don't agree that the ACC is going the route of the Big East.
 
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Once again, I nailed this well ahead of the rest of you and received negative feedback for my prescience. You arrogant sad sacks should pay better attention.

Patriot League here we come.

FreeStateDeac said:
One thing is absolutely certain: If the ACC implodes we will end up at the Div. II level, or thereabouts. Take a look at the Nate Silver column today on the NY Times website analyzing the Maryland/Rutgers move to the B1G, and in particular, click on the link in that column to his analysis of the actual fan following of all BCS conference teams, which gives you an idea of their TV appeal.

Guess what? Wake Forest has the smallest fan following nationally of ANY team in a BCS conference. We bring nothing to the table for any major college conference. We are paying the price for decades of generally mediocre basketball (no Final Four trip in half a century) -- a sport in which we could and should have done much better than we did -- and less-than-mediocre football.

And maybe as a small private school with a tiny alumni base located in a small market, we should just stop the charade of trying to compete with big state universities in football and get into a mid-major league where we can play at our level in basketball. Of course, that would still require getting a decent coach.
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mersk862 said:
No way a PAC-16 would take West Virginia. Geography makes no sense there for starters.
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They have to fit in somewhere. I think they best fit in geographically in the ACC but their academics don't fit. Just trying to piece together the 4 leages and 16 teams in each is the puzzle. Can't figure it will be 5 leagues of 16. Doesn't work for a bball tourney bracket.
 
OldGoldandGrobe said:
Are you guys fucking kidding? The ACC corpse is being picked clean as we speak. The only teams left will be us and the other small time losers.

Maybe we can join the Patriot League with a bunch of other middle tier private schools that have strong soccer and field hockey traditions.
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We would have to go back to the Southern and join up with Furman or go with Richmond in whatever league they are in now. No way any big time league wants us as we bring nothing to the table $$$wise.
 
TheReff said:
We would have to go back to the Southern and join up with Furman or go with Richmond in whatever league they are in now. No way any big time league wants us as we bring nothing to the table $$$wise.
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I imagine we could just do what Baylor did to Texas and VT did to VA. Use legislators to completely muck up the entire process. There were no other ACC schools in MD for it to deal with.
 
PhDeac said:
UVa and GT go to the Big Ten much like MD left. Big XII poaches FSU and Clemson along with Boise State and Louisville to get to 16. PAC-12 stays pat. ND stays Independent.

ACC has 4 pre-expansion teams left (Big Four) and is mostly former Big East and CUSA schools and has to meet certain criteria to get an auto bid into the new postseason.
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OGB, you consider UVa and GT to be in the same regional area as the rest of the Big Ten?

You consider FSU, Clemson, Boise, and Louisville to be in the same regional area as the Big XII?

You're really reaching, OGB. Sad.
 
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PhDeac said:
OGB, you consider UVa and GT to be in the same regional area as the rest of the Big Ten?

You consider FSU, Clemson, Boise, and Louisville to be in the same regional area as the Big XII?

You're really reaching, OGB. Sad.
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Once again, let's refer to the original post.

This. There is no plausible scenario in which the PAC-12, SEC, B1G, and Big 12 all go to 16 teams, unless you think they're going to be inviting the likes of Wyoming and SDSU. The Big 12's problem is that they're hemmed in by three more powerful conferences that have each stolen at least one of the Big 12's teams in the past few years. Our conference may be weaker, but we're totally insulated from the PAC-12, the SEC has no interest in our teams, and the B1G is already at 14--at worst they'd take ND and GT.
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Emphasis added. So either your assertion that GT isn't in the same regional area as the rest of the B1G is wrong, or your assertion that I was "thinking regionally" was wrong. Which was it?
 
I apologize. You have a screwed up definition of region to the point that your continuing a pissing match nobody cares about. Sure. Florida and Texas and Idaho are in the same region if it makes you feel better.
 
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PhDeac said:
OGB, you consider UVa and GT to be in the same regional area as the rest of the Big Ten?

You consider FSU, Clemson, Boise, and Louisville to be in the same regional area as the Big XII?

You're really reaching, OGB. Sad.
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PH, I don't think regions mean anything anymore. When BC has to fly to southern Florida to play Miami, that is not exactly close anyway. That is roughly 1500 miles. That is the same basic distance as it is from Los Angeles to Lawrence, Kansas. Or say Provo, Utah to Cincinnati, Ohio. Distance is not a factor anymore. It is TV ratings. When the SEC-Big 12 Championship bowl game will pay $80 million, that will pay for a lot of tennis matches in the spring between conference schools.
 
Why not just have football only conferences? Very few football games - approximately 6 traveling games/year. Let the "haves" fight it out in football Super Conferences.

The other sports could revert back to the pre-expansion era conferences. In such a scenario, Wake could (perhaps should?) just drop football (at least at Div 1 level), and focus on the other sports, and most notably basketball. I get that football money funds some of the other sports, but we are already seeing that mid-majors have caught up in basketball for the most part - it is not like the SEC does well in basketball. So, there is no real reason to believe you can't compete at a high level in other sports without football, and it would make the most sense - even for the big football schools - to go regionally/traditional conferences in non-football athletics. I don't care about Wake tennis or track and field or anything else (and saw a recent post suggesting we suck in those sports anyway). Go back to focusing on basketball and golf - offer enough scholarships to comply with Title IX (but slash the budgets otherwise), and we are in a much better position long term than trying to fight an arms race in football that we cannot possibly win. Yes, I enjoyed the Orange Bowl, but not enough to endure perennially sucking at basketball, and now reverting back to sucking in football, while all the traditional rivalries are swept away.
 
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