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2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

Get this back to Harris or other candidate debate. I'll take abolition debate elsewhere.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
but the frustrating thing is the first response from a lot of folks is that instead of saying "yeah, what's up with that", they jump straight to "omg, purity test! this is how we got Trump" rhetoric.

nobody is saying Harris or any of the Dem potential nominees aren't worse than Trump, but goddamn can't we have higher ambitions than not worse than Trump?
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This. Barca is arguing out of both sides of his mouth. Pick a position and stick to it, man.

I get that the current political climate incentivizes “own the ____” style politics, but cmon y’all (Barca, itc, twmd, Ph, etc.)

A) it’s a message board and b) if the left doesn’t examine candidates’ weaknesses, then you know the right surely will. That’s how you get Trump, not reasonable criticism of records on a message board.
 
Harris’s record is going to be something that she will have to deal with. Democrats need non-white voters to turn out to beat Trump and nominating somebody who actively worked to sustain the prison-industrial complex, exploitative policing, and discriminatory lending practices is going to give those voters pause. Ignore records at your own peril. Biden is unelectable in this climate. Harris should be fine if she just addresses her record. It’s downright strange that she hasn’t yet, to be honest with y’all.
 
Strickland33 said:
This. Barca is arguing out of both sides of his mouth. Pick a position and stick to it, man.

I get that the current political climate incentivizes “own the ____” style politics, but cmon y’all (Barca, itc, twmd, Ph, etc.)

A) it’s a message board and b) if the left doesn’t examine candidates’ weaknesses, then you know the right surely will. That’s how you get Trump, not reasonable criticism of records on a message board.
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how am I talking out of both sides of my mouth? I said if Harris is the nominee I will support her. Right now, I like her best of the potential nominees. I think it would be helpful if she's asked in a debate or interview context about the issues brought up here, but as others have pointed out, where the conversation was then vs now is greatly different. For me still, it's not enough to disqualify my vote and unless somehow a left-leaning version of Trump makes it through the primary process I'm voting Dem no matter who it is on the ballot.
 
a guy like Trump wouldn't make nuanced critiques of policy like this, he just speaks broadly "walls good, illegals bad" "taxes bad" "Obamacare bad" "Democrats bad" and Republican voters lap it up.
 
BarcaDeac said:
how am I talking out of both sides of my mouth? I said if Harris is the nominee I will support her. Right now, I like her best of the potential nominees. I think it would be helpful if she's asked in a debate or interview context about the issues brought up here, but as others have pointed out, where the conversation was then vs now is greatly different. For me still, it's not enough to disqualify my vote and unless somehow a left-leaning version of Trump makes it through the primary process I'm voting Dem no matter who it is on the ballot.
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Because Juice posted basically the same thing you jumped down MHB and mdmh’s throats for posting.

I get that the board libs just don’t like the M posters, but cmon y’all. It’s getting weird. itc is basically endorsing/whataboutting “not Trump” as a standard of decency for a Dem candidate. Trump has broken y’all.
 
Strickland33 said:
This. Barca is arguing out of both sides of his mouth. Pick a position and stick to it, man.

I get that the current political climate incentivizes “own the ____” style politics, but cmon y’all (Barca, itc, twmd, Ph, etc.)

A) it’s a message board and b) if the left doesn’t examine candidates’ weaknesses, then you know the right surely will. That’s how you get Trump, not reasonable criticism of records on a message board.
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i think it seems to a lot of us that one side plays to win, the other side plays
 
BarcaDeac said:
a guy like Trump wouldn't make nuanced critiques of policy like this, he just speaks broadly "walls good, illegals bad" "taxes bad" "Obamacare bad" "Democrats bad" and Republican voters lap it up.
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The right is a lot more than Trump.
 
Being the leader this early isn't necessarily good. If they all stay in and delegates are proportional, a brokered convention is a real possibility. Then, the craziness ensues.

Joe Kennedy/Tammy Duckworth

Sherrod Brown/somebody
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i think it seems to a lot of us that one side plays to win, the other side plays
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I realize that politics is a reality tv version of Game of Thrones to you, but policy nuance matters a lot to people who don’t benefit from the status quo (e.g., you and I).
 
Strickland33 said:
The right is a lot more than Trump.
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well he beat out, what? 16 or so other candidates for president? and unless something drastic happens, that's their choice for 2020. his message resonates with them, no matter what junebug and the like would have you believe.
 
Strickland33 said:
Because Juice posted basically the same thing you jumped down MHB and mdmh’s throats for posting.

I get that the board libs just don’t like the M posters, but cmon y’all. It’s getting weird. itc is basically endorsing/whataboutting “not Trump” as a standard of decency for a Dem candidate. Trump has broken y’all.
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no, just the foaming at the mouth when someone say s "you know, Harris' record as AG is a little less than great but otherwise she seems like a pretty viable candidate" is a little exhausting
 
Strickland33 said:
Harris’s record is going to be something that she will have to deal with. Democrats need non-white voters to turn out to beat Trump and nominating somebody who actively worked to sustain the prison-industrial complex, exploitative policing, and discriminatory lending practices is going to give those voters pause. Ignore records at your own peril. Biden is unelectable in this climate. Harris should be fine if she just addresses her record. It’s downright strange that she hasn’t yet, to be honest with y’all.
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As I mentioned earlier and as Barca stated well right above, to my knowledge, Kamala Harris has not been posed a direct question on her record in an official interview or debate setting where she could respond intelligently and in more than 280 characters. Her book mentions some aspects, but similar to the Twitter thread that started this debate, it’s one side of a story that does not have full context to go along with it. Clearly this is the issue that will stick with Harris for a while, so undoubtedly such an opportunity to address it will come up. I don’t think the fact she hasn’t yet is that strange at all, especially since she has not officially declared her candidacy.
 
BarcaDeac said:
well he beat out, what? 16 or so other candidates for president? and unless something drastic happens, that's their choice for 2020. his message resonates with them, no matter what junebug and the like would have you believe.
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Yeah and that’s why you shouldn’t make it even easier for the Junebug’s of the world to fall into line by not encouraging vetting candidates’ records.

I seem to recall the failed coronation of Clinton as a good example of this phenomenon.
 
Strickland33 said:
Yeah and that’s why you shouldn’t make it even easier for the Junebug’s of the world to fall into line by not encouraging vetting candidates’ records.

I seem to recall the failed coronation of Clinton as a good example of this phenomenon.
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i think he's just pointing out that vetting a candidate may be irrelevant
 
ImTheCaptain said:
no, just the foaming at the mouth when someone say s "you know, Harris' record as AG is a little less than great but otherwise she seems like a pretty viable candidate" is a little exhausting
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It’s a little worse than a little less than great. I realize that #resistance twitter and msnbc isn’t covering candidates in depth yet, but you could also just read up on her controversial tenure as AG. It’s not just “progressive” boogeymen who have issues with Harris. Her record has come under scrutiny in California politics a lot.
 
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