2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

[Strickland33]

He's essentially a protectionist, anti-free trade agreements, pro tariffs, etc. I think he genuinely means well and wants to help people, but while those kind of policies may theoretically help prop up small groups of workers in dying industries in the short run, they ultimately hurt everyone in the long run, imo.

I mean, I don't know if this is a flaw so much as an area where there is going to be substantial disagreement between Brown and ideologically liberal/neoliberal voters. It could be said that the system that ideological liberal and neoliberal voters endorse and that has been practiced for a generation is arguably the one that has ultimately eviscerated the economy for the majority of low wage workers in this country. Again, though, that's an ideological claim more than a candidate flaw, IMO.

 

[MHBDemon]

Have fun with Uncle Joe lining the pockets of private prison corporations.

 

[tiltdeac]

I mean, I don't know if this is a flaw so much as an area where there is going to be substantial disagreement between Brown and ideologically liberal/neoliberal voters. It could be said that the system that ideological liberal and neoliberal voters endorse and that has been practiced for a generation is arguably the one that has ultimately eviscerated the economy for the majority of low wage workers in this country. Again, though, that's an ideological claim more than a candidate flaw, IMO.

This is fair. It's not an obvious flaw in the way that "Steve King is a racist" is a flaw. But I don't think it's just ideological either. I think the vast majority of scholarship would suggest that he is objectively wrong on the issue and those types of policies (where he shares considerable overlap with Trump) would actually make things worse. That is enough for me to call it a flaw.

 

[Strickland33]

This is fair. It's not an obvious flaw in the way that "Steve King is a racist" is a flaw. But I don't think it's just ideological either. I think the vast majority of scholarship would suggest that he is objectively wrong on the issue and those types of policies (where he shares considerable overlap with Trump) would actually make things worse.

I'm not an expert on economics/economic theory, but doesn't the literature vary based on the assumptions that one makes going into it? That's the way it is in economistic rent control debates, for example.

 

[Shooshmoo]

Have fun with Uncle Joe lining the pockets of private prison corporations.

 

[PhDeac]

added nothing, unremarkable record (if anything he was a male Clinton), no charisma, borderline offensive pandering to non-white voters, lack of self-awareness when it came to said pandering, no lips

Somebody brought up Edwards and I think that Edwards was definitely worse, though, so I'll take the L on this one.

Yeah he was bad. But VP noms gave been very bad in recent years.

Kaine was an attempt to court white people who just aren’t going to be courting in this political environment. Gillum made the same mistake and I really like Chris King. Evangelicals just aren’t going to go for a liberal white Christian.

 

[Strickland33]

Joe Biden has name recognition going for him, but he would be the worst candidate to run in this election, I think. I know that folks think that he deserves to run, but between his voting record as a senator, past - televised - misogyny, and relationship with the prison and financial sectors, I think he's just an awful candidate to run in 2020.

It's incredible (seriously) that Obama managed to humanize one of the worst left legislators of the 90s to the point where pretty much everybody has forgotten just how much Joe Biden sucks.

 

[Strickland33]

Yeah he was bad. But VP noms gave been very bad in recent years.

Kaine was an attempt to court white people who just aren’t going to be courting in this political environment. Gillum made the same mistake and I really like Chris King. Evangelicals just aren’t going to go for a liberal white Christian.

is it too much to find a VP candidate with lips?

 

[tiltdeac]

I'm not an expert on economics/economic theory, but doesn't the literature vary based on the assumptions that one makes going into it? That's the way it is in economistic rent control debates, for example.

I'll try to answer this better later, but the short answer is that I'm likely even less of an expert, but suspect the answer to your question is yes. I'd love to learn more if people have good cites.

 

[Shooshmoo]

Joe Biden has name recognition going for him, but he would be the worst candidate to run in this election, I think. I know that folks think that he deserves to run, but between his voting record as a senator, past - televised - misogyny, and relationship with the prison and financial sectors, I think he's just an awful candidate to run in 2020.

It's incredible (seriously) that Obama managed to humanize one of the worst left legislators of the 90s to the point where pretty much everybody has forgotten just how much Joe Biden sucks.

OK - noted. Thank you. Are we talking about Biden now or are we talking about whether the institution of policing as a public service should exist?

 

[MHBDemon]

 

[Strickland33]

OK - noted. Thank you. Are we talking about Biden now or are we talking about whether the institution of policing as a public service should exist?

I'm not sure what you mean. Biden is a "law and order" democrat who voted for and said a lot of unfortunate things relating to policing, war on drugs, sentencing, etc. in the 90s and early 00s. I'm sure it will be dredged up and I'm not sure he has much of a response to it in this current left-political climate. The same goes for his misogyny and his unfortunate position as a senator from Delaware who was a (paid) lackey for financial deregulation for decades.

 

[MHBDemon]

I'm not sure what you mean. Biden is a "law and order" democrat who voted for and said a lot of unfortunate things relating to policing, war on drugs, sentencing, etc. in the 90s and early 00s. I'm sure it will be dredged up and I'm not sure he has much of a response to it in this current left-political climate. The same goes for his misogyny and his unfortunate position as a senator from Delaware who was a (paid) lackey for financial deregulation for decades.

“we do everything but hang people for jaywalking.”- Joe Biden

 

[Strickland33]

Like, all Biden could do would be what Clinton did when confronted with similar accusations: either belittle critics or just say that your thinking has evolved and ignore the issue (and the consequences of your actions) entirely. We know that approach doesn't work, so why push it?

 

[MHBDemon]

"The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is now for 60 new death penalties … The liberal wing of the Democratic Party has 70 enhanced penalties.… The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is for 100,000 cops. The liberal wing of the Democratic Party is for 125,000 new State prison cells."
-Joe Biden

The point isn't that politicians can't change and improve on past mistakes. The point is that engaging in these conversations, dealing with the records of Harris and Biden, specifically around how the Democratic party came to support mass incarceration, is exactly how we learn from past mistakes and prevent future expansion of the PIC. I'm not going to vote for any candidate that thinks the answers to 21st century problems should include more police, more training, more jails, etc.

 

[Shooshmoo]

Jesus -- you guys are like hive-minds. Where the fuck did Biden pop out of nowhere from? We were talking about Harris's quotes related to the police and MHB said the crazy thing about policing should not exist at all and I posted a couple of gifs because MHB does not live in the real world and he is all over the place and now you guys are having a Biden jerk sesh.

 

[Strickland33]

I would rephrase your post and say that past mistakes have significant consequences for poor Americans and, without some kind of accountability, the consequences (rather than the initial actions themselves) are what candidates need to reckon with because, otherwise, it's tough to believe that they won't make equally disastrous policy decisions moving forward.

Is that accurate, MHB?

 

[MHBDemon]

Jesus -- you guys are like hive-minds. Where the fuck did Biden pop out of nowhere from? We were talking about Harris's quotes related to the police and MHB said the crazy thing about policing should exist at all and I posted a couple of gifs because MHB does not live in the real world and he is all over the place and now you guys are having a Biden jerk sesh.

It's not that fucking complicated. Biden and Harris are the two potential candidates that stand out the most for their record on mass incarceration. Any and all criticisms of their past focusing on this issue is fair game. I said "have fun with Uncle Joe lining the pockets of private prison corporations" because there has been little to no acknowledgement or reconciliation from Democrats for their past mistakes.

 

[Strickland33]

Jesus -- you guys are like hive-minds. Where the fuck did Biden pop out of nowhere from? We were talking about Harris's quotes related to the police and MHB said the crazy thing about policing should not exist at all and I posted a couple of gifs because MHB does not live in the real world and he is all over the place and now you guys are having a Biden jerk sesh.

Last I checked, this thread is titled 2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees. If it's not, then let me know. I can't see the GIFs that you posted because they don't show up when I'm viewing the boards on my computer. I'm sure they are great GIFs, though.

 

[MHBDemon]

I would rephrase your post and say that past mistakes have significant consequences for poor Americans and, without some kind of accountability, the consequences (rather than the initial actions themselves) are what candidates need to be reckoned with because otherwise it's tough to believe that they won't make equally disastrous policy decisions moving forward.

Is that accurate, MHB?

Yeah, thats pretty good.