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2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

Strickland33 said:
S2M is a Warren supporter? That's news to me.

Look, y'all. My goal is to beat Trump in the Fall. I'm not interested in mental gymnastics to make ridiculous gaffes look acceptable and I'm not interested in freaking out about the worst of Twitter.

Yesterday was a big deal and anybody that cares about beating Trump over their portfolio gains realizes this.
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Yesterday was a big deal, yes. But Candidates doing the completely expected thing of claiming victory regardless of the results is not a big deal and not some massive conspiracy. Candidates need to try and set the media narratives. Nothing new or outrageous about about that.
 
Yeah I know people who took vacation days and bought plane tickets to go volunteer and organize in Iowa. People who stood outside meatpacking plants at shift change at 2 AM handing out leaflets and listening to people talk about preferred candidates in the snow. This is a big deal to people who do have convictions and care and have actively tried to engage in the political process. To see their efforts, and the efforts of anyone who tried to play a part in participative democracy just utterly shat on by incompetent dem consultants is so disheartening. Glad chrisL is having a nice one though.
 
birdman said:
Yesterday was a big deal, yes. But Candidates doing the completely expected thing of claiming victory regardless of the results is not a big deal and not some massive conspiracy. Candidates need to try and set the media narratives. Nothing new or outrageous about about that.
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So, nothing to see here?

Got it.

TownieDeac said:
This is a big deal to people who do have convictions and care and have actively tried to engage in the political process. To see their efforts, and the efforts of anyone who tried to play a part in participative democracy just utterly shat on by incompetent dem consultants is so disheartening.
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aka the big picture, but birdman says nothing to see here.
 
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ChrisL68 said:
Tabloid politics......come on man..Do Better!
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The app that malfunctioned was paid for by the DNC and administered by the IDC, ChrisL. Is this a fact or is it not?

That's significantly different than that trash quote that NED posted yesterday and Ph's conspiracy mongering re: Sanders campaign.
 
Strickland33 said:
So, nothing to see here?

Got it.



aka the big picture, but birdman says nothing to see here.
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Your obtuse side is not endearing.

I am saying the post caucus statements by the candidates is not indicative of some bigger conspiracy. The fuck up by the Dem Party as a whole is a big deal, who actually won is a big deal, how that influences what comes next is a big deal, but the candidates baseless claims of victory is expected and par for the course.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I think the entire caucus system is ridiculous.
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This is the 1 piece of good that will come out of yesterday. The caucus as a method of determining a state's primary vote is dead. IA may also be dead and put back at the end of the line. Which would be good because IA has never been a good predictor of the eventual nominee. Caucuses have always sucked because they reward the best ground game and rabid campaigns, not necessarily the most viable. They can reward single folks and elderly folks with time on their hands and punish families and folks who don't have 9-5 jobs. WhoTF wants to bring infants and toddlers to a 3-4 hour caucus or allow their teenagers no oversight on a school night? Then you have the whole second choice thing if your candidate doesn't reach the threshold. It's not a terribly democratic manner in which to vote. Kill it now.
 
PhDeac said:
I think you need a multi-stage primary to winnow down big fields. Ranked choice with 15+ candidates would be a shit show. The goal of the primary season should be a build consensus around a candidate. Ranked choice measures that but wouldn't do it. Instead of building consensus over time, it would be more like settling.
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That’s a fair response, but I think there are a lot of problems with the current winnowing process, which gives too much weight to a small number of states. I haven’t thought it all the way through, but perhaps a first round in February or so where those who get x% or higher move on to a May ranked-choice election would work.
 
Strickland33 said:
The app that malfunctioned was paid for by the DNC and administered by the IDC, ChrisL. Is this a fact or is it not?

That's significantly different than that trash quote that NED posted yesterday and Ph's conspiracy mongering re: Sanders campaign.
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Looks to me like the app was paid for by the IDC. I love how you like to cozy right on up to conspiracy theory land.
 
TownieDeac said:
Yeah I know people who took vacation days and bought plane tickets to go volunteer and organize in Iowa. People who stood outside meatpacking plants at shift change at 2 AM handing out leaflets and listening to people talk about preferred candidates in the snow. This is a big deal to people who do have convictions and care and have actively tried to engage in the political process. To see their efforts, and the efforts of anyone who tried to play a part in participative democracy just utterly shat on by incompetent dem consultants is so disheartening. Glad chrisL is having a nice one though.
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The results will still be reported. Candidates will still get their delegates. Yes, the winner won't get to make their Monday night speech, but they will get to claim victory in a day or two.

Let's not pretend that the hard work of the campaigners is for naught.
 
birdman said:
Your obtuse side is not endearing.

I am saying the post caucus statements by the candidates is not indicative of some bigger conspiracy. The fuck up by the Dem Party as a whole is a big deal, who actually won is a big deal, how that influences what comes next is a big deal, but the candidates baseless claims of victory is expected and par for the course.
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My obtuse side? You get hung up on my individual posts while repeating what I have posted a few times on here. I agree with you. Post-Caucus statements are gauche, not conspiracy theories. I'm asking Ph to account for Mayor Pete doing what he pre-emptively suggested Sanders supporters would do. He still hasn't acknowledged it. By all accounts, Pete will finish third and claimed victory in a really cynical ploy for momentum. As a Warren fan, that pisses me off, but you're right, it's just savvy bullshit.

As for the botched unveiling of results. Again, not a conspiracy theory. It is happening before our eyes and the DNC/IDC is directly to blame for it with their incompetence. As Nate Silver pointed out, the effects of this fuck up are going to really transform the nomination process in ways that are a pretty bad look for a putative democracy. You might want to spend more time pushing the posters who are chalking this up to not being a big deal, IMO, rather than continuing tone policing my posts.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
It's nice to have Section2mankini post from time to time, as otherwise I would have thought that "Bernie Bros" were a boogeyman invented by supporters of other candidates.

Can we all decide that we DGAF about what "supporters" of candidates have to say, and instead focus on what the actual candidates are saying and doing?
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It's telling that you think "Bernie Bros" are a boogeyman invention. If you popped your head out of your neo-liberal ass bubble for even a second, you'd realize there are literally millions of grassroots supporters of Bernie Sanders out there right now, donating, volunteering, making phone calls, knocking on doors, fighting for things like Medicare for All and free public college (if you wanna discuss what candidates are saying and doing) that Bernie's been fighting for for decades. Also known as engaging in democracy.

You don't DGAF about what "supporters" of candidates have to say? Lemme translate that for you: you DGAF about what people who disagree with you have to say.
 
I’m a Bernie supporter, but I do think the analysis that Bernie supporters claiming fraud before any substantial evidence of such is harmful to the campaign’s credibility is the correct analysis.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Looks to me like the app was paid for by the IDC. I love how you like to cozy right on up to conspiracy theory land.
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Link? I love how you reject anything that doesn't fit your narrative that all is well and progressives are being hysterical.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
The results will still be reported. Candidates will still get their delegates. Yes, the winner won't get to make their Monday night speech, but they will get to claim victory in a day or two.

Let's not pretend that the hard work of the campaigners is for naught.
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But the whole point is that it isn’t primarily about the delegates, but the momentum and perceived strength of the campaign. It’s why every hopeful sinks inordinate resources into the state. The delay and mess totally change the game.
 
Section2mankini said:
It's telling that you think "Bernie Bros" are a boogeyman invention. If you popped your head out of your neo-liberal ass bubble for even a second, you'd realize there are literally millions of grassroots supporters of Bernie Sanders out there right now, donating, volunteering, making phone calls, knocking on doors, fighting for things like Medicare for All and free public college (if you wanna discuss what candidates are saying and doing) that Bernie's been fighting for for decades. Also known as engaging in democracy.

You don't DGAF about what "supporters" of candidates have to say? Lemme translate that for you: you DGAF about what people who disagree with you have to say.
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Well that completely missed the point. Congrats.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
But the whole point is that it isn’t primarily about the delegates, but the momentum and perceived strength of the campaign. It’s why every hopeful sinks inordinate resources into the state. The delay and mess totally change the game.
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TITCR and really shouldn't be hard to understand. Nate Silver even understands this.
 
Let's also be clear that the only candidate who is claiming that the results are bullshit is Biden, though the fuckup arguably helps him by keeping his fourth place finish from being official (yet).

I haven't heard much from the Warren campaign, but I can imagine that they're furious about this debacle because it's going to further negatively affect her polling in the next few weeks.

The Sanders campaign knows that it has nothing to lose from this fiasco because it feels confident that it will win, its base is always riled up over something, and it's probably going to take New Hampshire anyway.

We've discussed Buttigieg's response enough, but it's clear that the ambiguity following the fuckup has allowed him to take some momentum into New Hampshire that he probably wouldn't have if the numbers were verified by now.

This will hopefully be the end of Yang and the rest.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
But the whole point is that it isn’t primarily about the delegates, but the momentum and perceived strength of the campaign. It’s why every hopeful sinks inordinate resources into the state. The delay and mess totally change the game.
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This is true to an extent. This mess and delay story will probably be bigger than the eventual results story. Biden and Sanders shouldn't be too butt hurt, however, because while it may harm short term momentum, they both have national campaigns, and neither had to have IA. I think the 2 most harmed campaigns are Buttigieg's and Klobuchar's - 2 midwesterners whose entire campaigns were predicated on winning IA. Even if 1 of them gets a good to great result, it's not going to help them as much heading into NH, NV and SC.
 
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