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A college degree is a lousy investment

Dentists and vets aren’t really considered STEM professions.
 
I learned today from brain-genius and definitely not early onset dementia-ridden JH that the declining value of a college degree is because of CRT and me and people like me, and not from any of the valid reason discussed in this thread. So, for that, I wanted to apologize to everybody. Mea culpa!
 
AMCDeac said:
So much for the STEM road to success: https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-p...-11638354602?mod=hp_trending_now_article_pos5


Professional degrees like dentistry and veterinary medicine are leaving many students with immense college debt, threatening the outlook for fields that provide essential public services, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of federal data.

. . .

For recent graduates of dentistry programs, the gap between debt and income was especially large for alumni of two elite private universities: the University of Southern California in Los Angeles and New York University in New York City. In each case, the median debt was more than four times as much as median earnings.

NYU, which says it educates nearly 10% of the nation’s dentists, tells current students they should expect to spend more than $572,000 for its four-year program, including living expenses. Federal data showed NYU dentistry students who graduated in the 2015 and 2016 classes had median debt of about $349,000 and, two years later, median earnings of about $82,000.
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My wife is a DVM and my ex-brother in law is an MD. They paid about the same amount for their degrees, but he makes about 6x more than her annually.
 
a side effect of all that dental school debt is that no dentists can open their own practice any more so it's all VE-owned race-to-the-bottom strip mall dentists options out there now
 
NYU training 10% of the nation’s dentists is a pretty incredible nugget
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
a side effect of all that dental school debt is that no dentists can open their own practice any more so it's all VE-owned race-to-the-bottom strip mall dentists options out there now
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And high med school debt is one of the legitimate hindrances to universal Healthcare.
 
I mean the entire dental industry is pretty shady to begin with, this would point towards it being because everyone is drowning in debt and needs those extra filling dollars.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
I mean the entire dental industry is pretty shady to begin with, this would point towards it being because everyone is drowning in debt and needs those extra filling dollars.
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But I have never had a dentist that works more than 4 days a week, usually 3.5...?
 
So people are outraged again because Biden won’t just unilaterally cancel student debt. I’ve just never understood this position at all. We are just supposed to wipe out all student loans at a point in time without making any actual changes to the system? I genuinely don’t get it at all.
 
WRS said:
So people are outraged again because Biden won’t just unilaterally cancel student debt. I’ve just never understood this position at all. We are just supposed to wipe out all student loans at a point in time without making any actual changes to the system? I genuinely don’t get it at all.
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I agree with you. Wiping out debt solves nothing - it just restarts the debt cycle again. I think the student loans folks are salty bc the government has forgiven billions in PPP loans.

I am in favor of student loan debt forgiveness because the government prepared the environment for disaster. The government needs to rescind the law that makes student loans exempt from bankruptcy. Whatever abuses this law was made for is less than the harm done by the law. Risk needs to be returned to the loan process. Interest rates will rise to address that risk, and some loans will be too risky to be made in certain situations. The limited amount of money available to the colleges will drive down prices.

For those that do not want a capitalistic solution but a social one, the government could take over for paying college education like they do in other countries. It would be "free" to qualified students with a tax increase to all. Society benefits from having educated citizens, and even North Carolina's founders believed in this benefit and put "free" college education in its state constitution.

Personally, I'm open to either solution. But right now, they're just talking about debt forgiveness without any/either solution.
 
just had two friends finally get their debt wiped under the revised version of the original program after years of denials

thanks, biden!
 
WRS said:
So people are outraged again because Biden won’t just unilaterally cancel student debt. I’ve just never understood this position at all. We are just supposed to wipe out all student loans at a point in time without making any actual changes to the system? I genuinely don’t get it at all.
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a lot of the anger stems from him making campaign promises around student debt that he has backed down from
 
ImTheCaptain said:
just had two friends finally get their debt wiped under the revised version of the original program after years of denials

thanks, biden!
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I'm scheduled to finish my payments in 2026 and I am big #nervous about Trump getting re-elected in 2024 and another fucking Devos kind of secretary that just fucks over everyone who applies for PSLF.
 
my BIL just finished his 7-year residency as an oral surgeon and started practicing a little over a year ago. he did dental school then went straight to the oral surgery program, where he essentially did a year or two of residency, then medical school then back to residency. can't imagine the debt he's racked up but I guess he'll be able to offset it soon enough.

his word of advice is never need to visit the ER on July 4 weekend in Shreveport as you'll probably have dentists with no medical training as your first line of defense.
 
BarcaDeac said:
my BIL just finished his 7-year residency as an oral surgeon and started practicing a little over a year ago. he did dental school then went straight to the oral surgery program, where he essentially did a year or two of residency, then medical school then back to residency. can't imagine the debt he's racked up but I guess he'll be able to offset it soon enough.
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Residents get paid a salary

(And the seven years you've described aren't all residency, obviously)
 
wakephan09 said:
Residents get paid a salary

(And the seven years you've described aren't all residency, obviously)
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yeah, but paltry. but built into the program is the med school component which you obviously pay for. it's just a different type of program than the standard med school/residency approach at separate institutions most MDs take.
 
Yeah the ratio of pay for the job you are doing comparatively to your peers doing the same job, actually typically less, but not in training might be the biggest gap there is.
 
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