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ACA Running Thread

ONW said:
It was a chance, and one that was missed as approximately half of the legislature stuck their fingers in their ears and yelled socialism, death panels, etc., and didn't participate.
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No doubt this terrible piece of legislation is a direct result of a total lack of leadership in Washington and the inability of the two parties to work out meaningful solutions.
 
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SkinsNDeacs said:
No doubt this terrible piece of legislation is a direct result of a total lack of leadership in Washington and the inability of the two parties to work out meaningful solutions.
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+1
 
ONW said:
It was a chance, and one that was missed as approximately half of the legislature stuck their fingers in their ears and yelled socialism, death panels, etc., and didn't participate.
Click to expand...

SkinsNDeacs said:
No doubt this terrible piece of legislation is a direct result of a total lack of leadership in Washington and the inability of the two parties to work out meaningful solutions.
Click to expand...

Yes, if only Washington would follow the spirits of patience and understanding that the denizens of the OGB practice, we'd finally get something done.

RJKarl said:
go fuck yourself
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So if we can ever decouple health insurance from employment...just require that everyone buy it on their own in a progressive manner (income-based government support of whatever kind). Seems sensible to me. But politically a challenge. Unless maybe done gradually in piecemeal fashion...


Interesting WSJ opinion piece from 2008: Why Tie Health Insurance to a Job?
 
The biggest problem with ACA can be fixed, well could be fixed if the GOP cared more about America than it does about destroying Obama and the Dems had an balls. Although the reason this fix is needed is the stupidity and cowardice of Obama and the Dems, it should be easy to do.

It's very simple- Medicare for all. Set up a national plan that allows every individual and every business to buy a Medicare policy for every person in America. Like Medicare, you could buy supplemental coverage, but you'd have a full package.

The governors would either have to say, "I don't want my state's population to be able to buy this policy."

Obama and the Dems screwed the pooch by saying they were expanding Medicaid versus expanding Medicare. The latter is the most loved insurance in this country. The infrastructure is in place.

They could still do this as simply an add on. Let the GOP stand up and say, "Medicare is good enough for grandma, but we don't want you to be able to buy a policy."

Of course, neither Obama nor the Dems have the balls to do this now.

My bad, I'm being a hack again.
 
Appalling... http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...e-to-keep-their-health-plans-under-obamacare/

How many people are exposed to these problems? 60 percent of Americans have private-sector health insurance—precisely the number that Jay Carney dismissed. As to the number of people facing cancellations, 51 percent of the employer-based market plus 53.5 percent of the non-group market (the middle of the administration’s range) amounts to 93 million Americans.
 
ConnorEl said:
So if we can ever decouple health insurance from employment...just require that everyone buy it on their own in a progressive manner (income-based government support of whatever kind). Seems sensible to me. But politically a challenge. Unless maybe done gradually in piecemeal fashion...


Interesting WSJ opinion piece from 2008: Why Tie Health Insurance to a Job?
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Not a banner year for ideas and policies...
 
RJKarl said:
The biggest problem with ACA can be fixed, well could be fixed if the GOP cared more about America than it does about destroying Obama and the Dems had an balls. Although the reason this fix is needed is the stupidity and cowardice of Obama and the Dems, it should be easy to do.

It's very simple- Medicare for all. Set up a national plan that allows every individual and every business to buy a Medicare policy for every person in America. Like Medicare, you could buy supplemental coverage, but you'd have a full package.

The governors would either have to say, "I don't want my state's population to be able to buy this policy."

Obama and the Dems screwed the pooch by saying they were expanding Medicaid versus expanding Medicare. The latter is the most loved insurance in this country. The infrastructure is in place.

They could still do this as simply an add on. Let the GOP stand up and say, "Medicare is good enough for grandma, but we don't want you to be able to buy a policy."

Of course, neither Obama nor the Dems have the balls to do this now.

My bad, I'm being a hack again.
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The governors wouldn't be able to stop Medicare expansion as it is a totally federal program. Their argument against Medicaid expansion is usually fear that the Feds. will change the sharing formula for the expanded coverage from 10% (after 2016, I think) to the formula used for the general Medicaid population (around 50%, but varies state by state).

I don't know what the cost of Medicare expansion would be. Anyone have numbers?
 
This is just one of many, many misleading and downright dishonest things that were said by ACA supporters to get it passed. Starting with pretending that it would reduce the deficit.

At the same time, I still think some of this is manufactured outrage. If ACA had never been passed, many millions of Americans would have had their rates hiked or plans changed between 2009 and now by the normal action of the insurance markets. CH can weigh in here, but the only way a plan could be grandfathered is for your employer to keep the same plan. But that's not really possible, because every plan is a year to year deal. The insurance companies could change them anytime they wanted to or hike rates to make them unaffordable. My employer generally switched insurers every 2-3 years before ACA and my cost went up every year. Some of these commentators are acting like people could "keep your plan if you like it" or lock in some lifetime insurance payment before ACA. That world never existed. You could keep your plan only until your employer or insurer decided not to offer it anymore or decided to hike the rate higher than you could afford.

That doesn't change the fact that the Democrats lied like crazy to get the bill passed, but it would help if the various commentators had some modicum of balance in their outrage.
 
So, what major flaw will be revealed today, and casually disregarded as nothing to worry about?
 
WFU71 said:
The governors wouldn't be able to stop Medicare expansion as it is a totally federal program. Their argument against Medicaid expansion is usually fear that the Feds. will change the sharing formula for the expanded coverage from 10% (after 2016, I think) to the formula used for the general Medicaid population (around 50%, but varies state by state).

I don't know what the cost of Medicare expansion would be. Anyone have numbers?
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I think RJ is suggesting that non-old people would buy a Medicare policy and let Medicare become the insurance company. Presumably, such legislation would be designed so that Medicare would break even on the deal. There would have to be subsidies or something for the poor to buy these Karlocare policies, so that would cost something, presumably as much or more than Obamacare.
 
Yep. Anyone with a brain knows you could never "keep your plan if you like it". Period. Before ACA. Or after...only after ACA you are going to be assured of the availability of some basic/decent coverage.

So it seems a dumb strategy to crow such a thing (that you can keep your plan). I suppose the point was to try and let everyone know that the ACA wasn't going to be a single-pay, public option only plan or government takeover/ownership of healthcare. Pretty clumsy way to go about it, and counterproductive in the end.
 
Deacon923 said:
I think RJ is suggesting that non-old people would buy a Medicare policy and let Medicare become the insurance company. Presumably, such legislation would be designed so that Medicare would break even on the deal. There would have to be subsidies or something for the poor to buy these Karlocare policies, so that would cost something, presumably as much or more than Obamacare.
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I agree that is what he is suggesting. Medicare is an expensive program, which is why I asked the question about costs. There would also be add-on costs for Part B, Part C and supplemental. The infrastructure is already in place, but the increased load on the Medicare system would be significant.
 
ConnorEl said:
Yep. Anyone with a brain knows you could never "keep your plan if you like it". Period. Before ACA. Or after...only after ACA you are going to be assured of the availability of some basic/decent coverage.

So it seems a dumb strategy to crow such a thing (that you can keep your plan). I suppose the point was to try and let everyone know that the ACA wasn't going to be a single-pay, public option only plan or government takeover/ownership of healthcare. Pretty clumsy way to go about it, and counterproductive in the end.
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The point was to deceive, deceive, deceive in order to get the law passed.
 
Calculated deception seems part and parcel to our politics. Whether you're trying to pass a law or oppose it. I don't like or desire to excuse it in either case.


But it seems endemic. And so to try and understand it isn't the same as to excuse.
 
ConnorEl said:
Calculated deception seems part and parcel to our politics. Whether you're trying to pass a law or oppose it. I don't like or desire to excuse it in either case.
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Agreed. I never said this wasn't business as usual. Still doesn't ease my frustration that they flagrantly lied on this matter.
 
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