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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - Charles Coleman de-commits to Wake. :(

And I take the opinion of Wake fans who have seen our recruits play with a grain of salt. Wake fans see through Wake glasses, and seeing a kid play, while is adds perspective, doesn't necessarily trump the opinions of multiple analysts and coaches who see hundreds of kids play and have a far more complete picture of the talent landscape.

As a Wake fan who has seen all the recently mentioned players play, only Massoud looks good to me. The other guys are just more Dick Wash and Rondale's. So it appears that some analysts and Wake fans both don't think highly of this haphazard class. Of course I fully expect Ron to justify it as progress in his head with some bullshit like "We were close on a lot of great players, made the top 6 for many future pros."

Dumpster.
 
How does L'Ville have a better recruiting class than the following:

USC - I'll take #14, 15 and 60 over no one in ESPN's Top 35
AZ- has 8,11, 63
KY - has 7,9, 91
Nova - has 12, 38, 48, 68
FL- has 13, 30, 35

Having five Top 100 is not better than two Top 10 or 15 with another Top 100.
 
How does L'Ville have a better recruiting class than the following:

USC - I'll take #14, 15 and 60 over no one in ESPN's Top 35
AZ- has 8,11, 63
KY - has 7,9, 91
Nova - has 12, 38, 48, 68
FL- has 13, 30, 35

Having five Top 100 is not better than two Top 10 or 15 with another Top 100.

I'd say Villanova's is better with the recent addition of Robinson-Earl. Southern Cal if you go position-by-position and compare David Johnson>Kyle Sturdivant, Josh Nickelberry>No SG for USC, Samuell Williamson is better than Max Agbonkpolo at the 3, USC wins at the 4 because Mobley is way better than Jaelyn Withers, Big Irish>Okongwu Idc what ESPN rates Okongwu he's a result of the Ball bros hype. Edge Louisville.

Arizona and Kentucky will both likely land 1 more guy and finish ahead of Louisville by the Spring, but 5 four star guys can improve a program just as much, if not more, than 3 really good players so I'd still give Louisville the edge right now. Debating classes aside Louisville has wrapped their class up already, unquestionably its a top 5 class right now, and it will likely remain top 8 in the country no matter what. Meanwhile Wake's program has given up on getting any more 4 star guys that remain and is settling for international leftovers like a food bank in some shithole country.
 
Danny gets a C- at best. The only reason it's that high is that I think Massoud is grossly underrated.

If by some miracle Hoard would stay, I'd love our 2/3/4 rotation of Hoard, Brown, Muscius, Massoud and Wright. If could add a decent big to Sarr, we'd have a very good team. Alas, Hoard shouldn't be staying.
 
Neither Odom nor Prosser achieved this.

Not sure that's a standard that Wake has ever lived up to. From 1998 (when I can first find RSCI data) through 2009 (Dino's last class), we met the bold criterian 8-of-12 times. Clearly it impacted our success on the court, as the 01-03 classes and the 05-08 classes culminated in #1 rankings and lofty NCAA tournament expectations. But it's likely unrealistic for every single class to have either a 5-star or multiple top-100 players.

1998 - yes
1999 - no
2000 - no
2001 - yes
2002 - yes
2003 - yes
2004 - no
2005 - yes
2006 - yes
2007 - yes
2008 - yes
2009 - no

For reference, Danny is 2-for-5 on the above (met in 2015 and 2018, did not meett in 2014, 2016, and 2017). [Redacted] was 2-for-4.

If your standards are high enough you will inevitably fail to meet them every single year. That’s not a reason to lower your standards.

Also let’s please not retroactively give [Redacted] credit for Dino’s class.
 
As a Wake fan who has seen all the recently mentioned players play, only Massoud looks good to me. The other guys are just more Dick Wash and Rondale's. So it appears that some analysts and Wake fans both don't think highly of this haphazard class. Of course I fully expect Ron to justify it as progress in his head with some bullshit like "We were close on a lot of great players, made the top 6 for many future pros."

Dumpster.

So you have seen these kids in live action? Or perhaps just on video? I am not here to defend Manning but these kids deserve to have a chance to show they are not losers in basketball like some want to make them out to be
 
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So you have seen these kids in live action? Or perhaps just on video? I am not here to defend Manning but these kids deserve to have a chance to show they are not losers in basketball like some what to make them out to be

No one here has the ability to deny them that chance. That said, I'd be much happier if they had that chance somewhere other than Wake and we would give that chance to kids more likely to not be losers.
 
So you have seen these kids in live action? Or perhaps just on video? I am not here to defend Manning but these kids deserve to have a chance to show they are not losers in basketball like some what to make them out to be

Yeah I flew all the way to Canada to watch some kid's team that could lose to a good Dad rec league team play. So you're telling me the only way to scout players is to watch them in person? If you think that, you're stupid. I have seen Massoud play live, will probably check out Bilau v. Bob Bob in person this year too, mainly to see the LaMelo show. I don't need to see Neath and Ody live, their game tape tells me everything I need to know. But back to your question - WGAF between full game tape and sitting in the stands?
 
No one here has the ability to deny them that chance.

That makes it even more important that we give them a shot under live action to see what they can do before so willy-nilly condemning them to failure. If they perchance should read these boards one would hope they would take their thrashing here as a challenge instead of an insult. Remember these are 17-19 year old kids we are talking about and we owe them that chance.
 
Danny gets a C- at best. The only reason it's that high is that I think Massoud is grossly underrated.

If by some miracle Hoard would stay, I'd love our 2/3/4 rotation of Hoard, Brown, Muscius, Massoud and Wright. If could add a decent big to Sarr, we'd have a very good team. Alas, Hoard shouldn't be staying.

That's a top 20 team right there.
 
I've only seen two videos of Neath, and am optimistic from what I saw in both. Looks really explosive when healthy and had a decent looking shot from what little there was of that. Why do think he's going to be so shitty Netflix?
 
Yeah I flew all the way to Canada to watch some kid's team that could lose to a good Dad rec league team play. So you're telling me the only way to scout players is to watch them in person? If you think that, you're stupid. I have seen Massoud play live, will probably check out Bilau v. Bob Bob in person this year too, mainly to see the LaMelo show. I don't need to see Neath and Ody live, their game tape tells me everything I need to know. But back to your question - WGAF between full game tape and sitting in the stands?

Well if you think the coaches didn't watch them numerous times on video AND in person a lot more than any of us (and yes I watched their videos too) I don't know what to tell you. So if they don't work out then the fault is on the coaches who evaluated them (which is what I pretty much implied)
 
That makes it even more important that we give them a shot under live action to see what they can do before so willy-nilly condemning them to failure. If they perchance should read these boards one would hope they would take their thrashing here as a challenge instead of an insult. Remember these are 17-19 year old kids we are talking about and we owe them that chance.

Why do we owe them that? Is there any point that we don't owe them that? If Manning signed a player who had played 1 year of competitive basketball, was 4 feet tall and scored 5 points in his entire career, would we still owe him a chance to prove he's an ACC player? I'm not condemning anyone. I don't have that ability. I'm just making an educated guess as to how their career will pan out based on the data available and the observations of professionals.

Conversely, is it unfair to expect great things from a Top 5 player?
 
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That makes it even more important that we give them a shot under live action to see what they can do before so willy-nilly condemning them to failure. If they perchance should read these boards one would hope they would take their thrashing here as a challenge instead of an insult. Remember these are 17-19 year old kids we are talking about and we owe them that chance.

Nobody is condemning the kids to failure. They have received offers to play in college- that makes them a success.

That doesn't change the fact that they are not likely to turn Wake into a top 25 team. In fact, they are more likely to be part of Wake teams that are awful, due to the fact they will be playing other teams with more talented players, night after night. You are right, that is the fault of the coaches who struck out on every other legit player they looked at this year before offering them.
 
Such a classic Racer derailment of a thread. Never around for the good times, but jumps to defense mode to pessimistically spew his tactless views of teenagers before they even step on campus.

Color me unsurprised that you're in the "thou shalt never say anything negative about a Wake recruit" camp. You and a few other sunshiners, along with special guest RJ, can have that camp to yourselves. That said, I'm fairly sure sportsnut started this particular subthread.

As for the good times, I was there for all of them, damn near all in person, back when we actually had good times. I miss those days. Sorry, not sorry, that I'm not sitting around making excuses for the current state of the program and pretending that it makes me a good fan.
 
I've only seen two videos of Neath, and am optimistic from what I saw in both. Looks really explosive when healthy and had a decent looking shot from what little there was of that. Why do think he's going to be so shitty Netflix?

A few red flags - bad motor/takes plays off, goes to a bigger point of he can disappear in games even when playing very subpar competition. I remember 1 game I saw he got severely outplayed by a guard under 6ft who is going to a mid major. Not an explosive vertical - his dunking has more to do with his plus wingspan and big hands, will also be considered slow footed in the ACC. Sometimes forces bad passes that lead to turnovers/poor decision making. Not a plus defender, may actually be a liability on that end if he doesn't improve. I think the lack of competition he plays regularly will hurt him/bigger learning curve. For being such a highly ranked Canadian player his team has lost to some bad teams and he hasn't stepped up to lead them to win those games. Comparatively I think Neath would be eaten alive by Anthony Harris at VTech, Boogie Ellis at Duke, Cole at UNC, Wong at Miami, Lecque if he goes to State. I think he's also worse than Goodine going to Cuse', Johnson going to Louisville, Morsell going to UVA, not a top 8 PG in the conference for the 2019 class. Not a guy that gets us to the top 1/3rd or top 1/2 of the ACC and Danny needs guys that get us there.

I'm not trying to be a Debby Downer here, but realistically Neath and Ody aren't going to be guys that get the job done. Maybe for a mid major team, but not in the ACC. They don't look like ACC caliber players to me. At best they are reserves for a bottom half ACC team. Ody may develop into something better than I predict because we've seen bigs here get better, but assuming this staff stays there is no hope for Neath. Haven't seen any guard development since Manning took over. In general, for a guy on the hot seat these are the type of players that will seal your fate. Hot seat guys need Cole Anthony's and Chol Marial's not taking flyers on Neath and Ody.
 
netflix what's your take on Wright Jr. after seeing him play a couple college games?
 
A few red flags - bad motor/takes plays off, goes to a bigger point of he can disappear in games even when playing very subpar competition. I remember 1 game I saw he got severely outplayed by a guard under 6ft who is going to a mid major. Not an explosive vertical - his dunking has more to do with his plus wingspan and big hands, will also be considered slow footed in the ACC. Sometimes forces bad passes that lead to turnovers/poor decision making. Not a plus defender, may actually be a liability on that end if he doesn't improve. I think the lack of competition he plays regularly will hurt him/bigger learning curve. For being such a highly ranked Canadian player his team has lost to some bad teams and he hasn't stepped up to lead them to win those games. Comparatively I think Neath would be eaten alive by Anthony Harris at VTech, Boogie Ellis at Duke, Cole at UNC, Wong at Miami, Lecque if he goes to State. I think he's also worse than Goodine going to Cuse', Johnson going to Louisville, Morsell going to UVA, not a top 8 PG in the conference for the 2019 class. Not a guy that gets us to the top 1/3rd or top 1/2 of the ACC and Danny needs guys that get us there.

I'm not trying to be a Debby Downer here, but realistically Neath and Ody aren't going to be guys that get the job done. Maybe for a mid major team, but not in the ACC. They don't look like ACC caliber players to me. At best they are reserves for a bottom half ACC team. Ody may develop into something better than I predict because we've seen bigs here get better, but assuming this staff stays there is no hope for Neath. Haven't seen any guard development since Manning took over. In general, for a guy on the hot seat these are the type of players that will seal your fate. Hot seat guys need Cole Anthony's and Chol Marial's not taking flyers on Neath and Ody.

Not saying you’re wrong - I haven’t seen enough to agree or disagree with you - but are there full game clips out there you watched? If so I greatly admire your dedication
 
netflix what's your take on Wright Jr. after seeing him play a couple college games?

I like his game. Hope he stays here for 4 years, because he could end up being a good ACC level player. I like his "versatility" (magic word in modern basketball) and think he can actually play the 1-3, has good size and athleticism, good form on his jumper, has the quickness and length to become a solid defender on the perimeter. Wish he was as thick as Chaundee but I think Horn will get him bigger, looking at his dad its definitely in his genetics to be able to muscle up.
 
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